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#9298 - 05/23/06 03:40 PM 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Interborough Offline
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The 'A' and 'C' trains should end at Lefferts Blvd-116th street as well as Far Rockaway/Rock park. It will offer a seemless ride from Manhattan without the need for a transfer at Euclid Ave. or Rockaway Blvd.

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#9299 - 05/23/06 04:23 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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No one would stay on the local C train from the Rockaways all the way to Manhattan. That would be too long a ride on a local and riders would just take the A leaving the C empty until when it makes local stops on the Fulton line picking up riders that will only get off to take the A at the express stops.

Plan won't work. C is better off at Euclid only. You can't even extend the C to Lefferts as riders would bail from the C for the A at Rockaway Blvd let alone run it all the way down to the Rockaways.

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#9300 - 05/23/06 04:47 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Interborough Offline
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The A and C make the same stops from Hoyt street to Canal street. 'A' trains skip Spring, 23rd and 50th streets. 'C' trains stop at all stations. The average subway ride is about 7-12 mins. People would most likely change for the A express at 59th a street to avoid riding local along CPW.

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#9301 - 05/23/06 06:21 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
R-7 SEPTA Local Offline
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I agree with Grand Concourse that there is no need for restoring 'round-robin' type services of the current 'A & C' lines serving all 3 terminals.(Far Rock, Rock Park/beach 116 & lefferrts.)

However GC there is a real problem with non-regular riders mainly out of town tourists who want to get to JFK via Airtrain at Howard Beach and really want the "A" Far Rock line. In every case i railfan on Lefferts there is always at least 1 or more passengers that think that Lefferts transfers to the Airtrain. I tell them it's easiest at that station to take Q-10 to JFK.


There is need for MTA to either place computer signs or make Loud PA announcements at Euclid & Rockaway Blvd-Cross Bay stations to make it less confusing for tourists.

With that said i think the following permanet changes are needed for "A and C" lines in Queens and Euclid station in Brooklyn.


Lefferts

"C" opeartes all times between Lefferts and 168th St via Local. Weekdays every other(alternative) trains starts/ends at Euclid.

<A> diamond opeartes rush hours only along existing Lefferts-207 line between those two points so Ozone Park area riders don't 'scream' about losing Manhattan express service.


Late Nights 'shuttle buses' opeartes between Rock/Cross Bay and Lefferts stations. No need to opearte a shuttle train when the 3 stations on Lefferts branch are very close.


Rockaways

"A" remains the same only opearting between Far Rock and 207th St via express. Late Night all stops. Weekdays 'short trip' A''s start/end at Howard Beach/JFK station.

"H"(replaces the "A" diamond)Rock Park-Manhattan express service) and opeartes between 168th St and Rock Park. 8th Ave/Central Park Local in Manhattan and Fulton express in Brooklyn Rush Hours only.

"H" opeartes between Broad Channel and Rock Park-beach 116th St Daily from 5am-1am. Weekends extended to Euclid Ave.

Late Nights *extend either the Q-22 or Q-35 to serve the Beach 67th St "A" stop for owl service between Beach 67th and Rock Park station stops.

Point is riders particuarly tourists can use the correct letter to tell what branch is being served in that part of the NYC subway system.

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#9302 - 05/23/06 07:21 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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Actually the answer is simple:
A: as it is to Lefferts [all times, except late nights as it would run as a shuttle from Lefferts to Euclid]
H: the A line to Far Rockaway [all times, late nights it runs local] and rush hour trains to Rockaway Park*
C: leave alone as is [reread my statement about the C]

IE: Split the A into 2 distinct lines to minimize confusion. Both would start from 207th, but end at different points in Queens.

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#9303 - 05/23/06 08:20 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
R-7 SEPTA Local Offline
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Grand Councourse what about 'late night' service on the "A' and 'H" lines when "C" is not running?

What about the headway/frequencies late nights?
Right now the "A" making all stops from 207 to/from Far Rock opeartes every 20 minutes with the Lefferts shuttle train leaving about 2-5 minutes later(leaving Euclid) or 2-5 minutes before Far Rock train arrives to Euclid?

Do you have 40-minute headways on each branch(20 minute between 207th St and Rockaway Blvd/)

Or do you have the "H" opearte late nights as an 8th Ave/Fulton Express 24/7?

I could live with your idea GC on the "A, C and H' plan , but you not 'clear on late night service. :rolleyes:

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#9304 - 05/23/06 08:46 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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Late night service I would assume being the A would run as a shuttle from Lefferts to Euclid as it already does. The H would run local from Far Rock to 207th.

The 2 letters can be switched - the main point is the A designation should be divided in 2 to minimize confusion.

I do not know much about the train frequency and again nothing is really changed other than the A becoming 2 seperate letters representing 2 different terminals.

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#9305 - 05/23/06 09:04 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
mets15 Offline
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I know an even more simpler solution for tourists, then can start using their eyes and brains more.
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#9306 - 05/24/06 05:37 AM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
MikeGerald45 Offline
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The A trains to Far Rockaway have the "JFK" signage as part of the electronic signs on the 75-foot cars, while the trains going to Lefferts do not. On the other types of cars, the conductors make the announcements.

There are signs on the platforms in Manhattan and Brooklyn that tell riders to take the "A to Far Rockaway" for JFK Airport, along the columns in the stations the metal bolted signs are posted.

The conductors announce that the Far Rockaway trains are the ones to take for JFK - this done a t all the major stations.

The subway maps, and internet-based media indicate how to travel to JFK via the subway.

All in all, I still do not understand how the tourists get lost on the way to JFK.

Mike

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#9307 - 05/24/06 06:31 AM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
TheGreatOne2k7 Offline
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(A) to Lefferts also goes to JFK(via Q10 Bus) and is cheaper.
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#9308 - 05/24/06 06:55 AM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
ShortLineKK Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grand Concourse:
No one would stay on the local C train from the Rockaways all the way to Manhattan. That would be too long a ride on a local and riders would just take the A leaving the C empty until when it makes local stops on the Fulton line picking up riders that will only get off to take the A at the express stops.

Plan won't work. C is better off at Euclid only. You can't even extend the C to Lefferts as riders would bail from the C for the A at Rockaway Blvd let alone run it all the way down to the Rockaways.
I with GC on this one.
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#9309 - 05/24/06 11:35 AM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
cotb16 Offline
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Hey, but what if the A messes up between Rockaway Blvd and the Rockaways? The C would provide an extra backup for the A in Ozone Park. Even if no one rides the C, it would be a perfect alternate.
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#9310 - 05/24/06 02:44 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
ShortLineKK Offline
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How about this. Have two express on 8th Av/Fulton Av.
(A)8th Av/Fulton Exp from Inwood/207th to Far Rockway. All Times
(K)8th Av/Fulton Exp from Inwood/207th to Lefferts
Avenue. Until 12m. (Shuttle b/w Euclid & Lefferts after 12m)
(C)8th Av/Fulton Lcl Same
(E)Queens Bl/8th Av Lcl Same
(S)or(H) Rockaway Shuttle Same with <A> service.

I know this scenario has been here b4, but maybe the MTA will get an IDEA! If they read this.
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#9311 - 05/24/06 05:34 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Mr. Harlem Line Offline
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Loc: Elmhurst, NY
Well, it would avoid confusion between the Lefferts Blvd and Far Rockaway Lines...

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#9312 - 05/24/06 05:39 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cotb16:
Hey, but what if the A messes up between Rockaway Blvd and the Rockaways? The C would provide an extra backup for the A in Ozone Park. Even if no one rides the C, it would be a perfect alternate.
In the extreme cases they could just run a shuttle. There is no need to disrupt C service.

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#9313 - 05/24/06 05:51 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeGerald45:
The A trains to Far Rockaway have the "JFK" signage as part of the electronic signs on the 75-foot cars, while the trains going to Lefferts do not. On the other types of cars, the conductors make the announcements.

There are signs on the platforms in Manhattan and Brooklyn that tell riders to take the "A to Far Rockaway" for JFK Airport, along the columns in the stations the metal bolted signs are posted.

The conductors announce that the Far Rockaway trains are the ones to take for JFK - this done a t all the major stations.

The subway maps, and internet-based media indicate how to travel to JFK via the subway.

All in all, I still do not understand how the tourists get lost on the way to JFK.

Mike
Well either they don't pay attention to the signs on the trains [or the signs are wrong] and they don't hear the announcements [or the PA speakers aren't audible]. More or less some ppl just do not pay attention till it is too late.

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#9314 - 05/24/06 09:06 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
mikebox Offline
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Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 665
Loc: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by ShortLineKK:
How about this. Have two express on 8th Av/Fulton Av.
(A)8th Av/Fulton Exp from Inwood/207th to Far Rockway. All Times
(K)8th Av/Fulton Exp from Inwood/207th to Lefferts
Avenue. Until 12m. (Shuttle b/w Euclid & Lefferts after 12m)
(C)8th Av/Fulton Lcl Same
(E)Queens Bl/8th Av Lcl Same
(S)or(H) Rockaway Shuttle Same with <A> service.

I know this scenario has been here b4, but maybe the MTA will get an IDEA! If they read this.
Scenarios are awesome but let's face it, the city doesn't give a damn about these lines, as they let them further dilapidate each year. The A/C/E serve the shaft of the city, the farthest of the west side, and that's what the major concern would be in providing more or better service to people that the MTA and NYC politicians couldn't give two s**** about. If you ask me, and you can, the only new/extension of service we'll ever see in our natural born lives is maybe getting extended hours on some trains that go to and from the beach in the summer time. Don't count on anything happening for anyone on 8th Avenue, or Fulton Street in Brooklyn.
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#9315 - 05/24/06 09:47 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
D.A. Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mets15:
I know an even more simpler solution for tourists, then can start using their eyes and brains more.
DAMN RIGHT MY NIZZLE FO SHIZZLE!!!
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#9316 - 05/24/06 10:01 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
R42 4811 Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mets15:
I know an even more simpler solution for tourists, then can start using their eyes and brains more.
Most tourists don't bother using their eyes and
brains and ask people.
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til next time


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#9317 - 05/24/06 10:49 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
mets15 Offline
TWU President

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 3584
Loc: Knickerbocker Avenue on the (M...
Quote:
Originally posted by D.A.:
Quote:
Originally posted by mets15:
I know an even more simpler solution for tourists, then can start using their eyes and brains more.
DAMN RIGHT MY NIZZLE FO SHIZZLE!!!
Lol. laugh
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#9318 - 05/25/06 08:43 AM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
D.A. Offline
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Registered: 09/01/05
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Loc: EAST NY, BROOKLYN, NYC
OMGWTFBBQROTFLMGDMFAO!!!!!!!
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#9319 - 05/25/06 02:58 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
J-Perfect Offline
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man just bring back the (K) and make it go express to Lefferts...(C) to Euclid, (S) to Rockaway Pk, and the (A) to Far Rockaway :p

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#9320 - 05/25/06 03:44 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
A-train Offline
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before A & C went to the Rockaways so both going to Lefferts Blvd shouldnt be much of a difference
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#9321 - 05/25/06 07:15 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Grand Concourse Offline
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Again, the C is mainly used to take local riders to the express stops so they can get on the A. That is why the C should NOT be extended.

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#9322 - 05/25/06 08:33 PM Re: 'A' and 'C' to Lefferts Blvd.
Forest Glen Offline
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The current pattern works. The only change that should be made is more A trains to the Rockaways and less to Lefferts.
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