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#497640 - 04/01/10 10:24 AM original irt system.
Chipper11 Offline
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i think it would be a good idea to have the original irt system in place. do you agree.

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#497651 - 04/01/10 12:06 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: Chipper11]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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No because the 'original' IRT only ran from City Hall to 145 St. You would need to shut the Lex north of Grand Central and the 7th Ave line south of Times Square, not to mention the outer boroughs.
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#497754 - 04/08/10 12:32 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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What I think he means is should there be trains going from the Upper West Side to the Lower East Side like the original system, with the rest of the subway system still in place.
The answer is still no.
1) There would be too much congestion at the the merge points along 42nd Street and
2) Even if the lines (UES-LWS and UWS-LES) were to run on separate tracks, it is better to have as few turns as possible (like now with the lines going straight down the East and West Side), since that allows for greater track capacity.
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#497765 - 04/08/10 08:12 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
R160Etrain Offline
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The Tines Square shuttle solves the east side west side problem, although it would be nice if there was a shuttle along 125 st.

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#497778 - 04/09/10 02:24 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: R160Etrain]
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Since the bus service uptown is terrible, it would be nice to replace the M100 with a train
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#497781 - 04/09/10 06:49 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
Since the bus service uptown is terrible, it would be nice to replace the M100 with a train


On my fantasy map the SAS would have had one branch going to the bronx and the other going down 125 st then continue up manhattan to North Riverdale(basically the boarder of the Riverdale and Westchester) maybe the MTA should due this in the later stages of the SAS.

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#497782 - 04/09/10 09:27 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: R160Etrain]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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Would the line use the Amtrak tracks on the west side?
In my opinion, I think it would be more cost-effective to run the line to 125th St-Broadway and extend the 1 to the county line. I don't know if the residents of Riverdale would want a subway. Of course, fantasy maps are NIMBY-free worlds.
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#497786 - 04/10/10 10:11 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: checkmatechamp13
Would the line use the Amtrak tracks on the west side?
In my opinion, I think it would be more cost-effective to run the line to 125th St-Broadway and extend the 1 to the county line. I don't know if the residents of Riverdale would want a subway. Of course, fantasy maps are NIMBY-free worlds.

No, at the moment they want that for Metro North service to Penn Station (the general goal of having both Metro North and LIRR service into both Grand Central and Penn equally). That idea is one of the most striking "why hasnt this been done already" questions.
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#497788 - 04/10/10 05:15 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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I was referring to R160Etrain's fantasy map.
If I am correct the New Haven Line would come over the Hell Gate Bridge as well. (I think they run some service to the Meadowlands in that way.
Would there be any stops along the West Side? I think I read somewhere that some stops would be at 125th Street and 62nd Street.
I do agree that it is stupid that trains from LI only come into Penn Station and that trains from upstate can only come into Grand Central.
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#497800 - 04/11/10 12:08 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
TwoTimer Offline
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Yeah the NH line would come over Hells Gate, making stops (optional but I deem it necessary) at Co-op city and Parkchester. There is nothing at the moment near the tracks as they go by Co-op (the station would be in the back of Section 5 for those that know what that is), and there is a slew of parking lots and small auto shops on the side of East Tremont Av where they would want Parkchester station. If such a station was built, it would be literally 2 blocks from my home and offer for the first time a one-seat ride to Penn Station or even Grand Central (one has to assume if both ESA and this Hells Gate plan finished that there would be at least few trains into Grand Central via Hells Gate) in about 25 mins laugh.

Yeah, as far as the west side goes, 125th and somewhere in the Upper West Side, maybe in the 70s a lil better than the 60s.
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#497803 - 04/11/10 01:03 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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So the Hew Haven trains going into Grand Central via Hells Gate would come into the Lower level with the LIRR East Side Branch. Correct?
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#497804 - 04/11/10 02:20 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
TwoTimer Offline
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Not in the works, but can be done since ESA will be far finished by then. The financials have it as an extra expense to place stations in the Bronx (albeit us Bronxcites deem it a necessary one). What will happen to land values should a station in Co-op open, presenting for the first time (to Co-op) travel to midtown in under an hour?
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#497806 - 04/11/10 04:20 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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Proof that the station (at least the Co-Op City station) would get heavy ridership lies in the fact that the BxM7 has the highest ridership and lowest cost per person out of all of the MTA Bus express routes (and ranks 4th in weekday ridership out of all of the NYC express bus routes). The money that they spend on the station (as opposed to running it nonstop) could be made up in the amount of BxM7 service that could be reduced as a result of midtown access being available at the station.
By the way, would the Co-Op City station be near Erskine Place with the Parkchester station being near Unionport Road/Tremont Avenue? That looks like where the train tracks run near. If only the station could be more centralized, to serve more of northern Co-Op City.
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#497808 - 04/11/10 09:20 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
RokuSix Offline


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Originally Posted By: checkmatechamp13

By the way, would the Co-Op City station be near Erskine Place with the Parkchester station being near Unionport Road/Tremont Avenue? That looks like where the train tracks run near. If only the station could be more centralized, to serve more of northern Co-Op City.


It depends on how any East Side Access projects come up. I anticipate it being further north, only because a subway line that far south would parallel the 6 so much almost to a point where it would be redundant.
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#497819 - 04/12/10 06:48 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: checkmatechamp13
Would the line use the Amtrak tracks on the west side?
In my opinion, I think it would be more cost-effective to run the line to 125th St-Broadway and extend the 1 to the county line. I don't know if the residents of Riverdale would want a subway. Of course, fantasy maps are NIMBY-free worlds.


After 125 st it continue up Manhattan via Amsterdam Av than join the A from 168 st to 207 st, then up Riverdale Av to the boarder of the Bronx/Westchester.

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#497829 - 04/13/10 02:35 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: RokuSix]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: RokuSix
Originally Posted By: checkmatechamp13

By the way, would the Co-Op City station be near Erskine Place with the Parkchester station being near Unionport Road/Tremont Avenue? That looks like where the train tracks run near. If only the station could be more centralized, to serve more of northern Co-Op City.


It depends on how any East Side Access projects come up. I anticipate it being further north, only because a subway line that far south would parallel the 6 so much almost to a point where it would be redundant.

As far as I know, it was supposed to be right there on Erskine as there's just weeds and overgrowth down by the tracks. the Parkchester station between Purdy and Unionport, which at the moment is some empty space, a couple auto body shops, and a parking lot sandwiched between them. Yes, the Co-op station would get ridership up the wazoo, as will Parkchester station is its surrounded by middle class neighborhoods that can't get a seat on a <6> or a (5) at E180st. These neighborhoods will poney up extra just to sit for a change.
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#497835 - 04/13/10 10:46 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
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A Co-op City station would likely result in a decrease of greenhouse gas emissions.
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#497841 - 04/13/10 06:58 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
TwoTimer Offline
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It would go well within that 30% cut in our alreadty small footprint Bloomberg was advertising last year. The only caveat is how to get the customers to the station which would be in a generally out of the way place to get to (even though there is ample bus service out there now). Would the bus service that goes out there now (QBx1/Bx26/28/30, Bx29 nearby) be ample enough to bring everyone out there. Don't look at the current bus map, think of the map after cuts and realignment to the Co-op routes are made (I cant remember them offhand).
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#497861 - 04/14/10 07:49 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
RokuSix Offline


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If the changes are made, getting there will be even worse from the other sections. The only bus making full circle will be the QBx1, maybe the Bx30, I'm not sure.
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#497866 - 04/14/10 09:01 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: RokuSix]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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The Bx38 would make the full loop as well. At least it would be quicker than getting to the (6) train at Pelham Bay Park.
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#497889 - 04/18/10 03:35 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: checkmatechamp13]
TwoTimer Offline
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I hope by time it gets there it will still be affordable, given that Co-op is not exactly blessed with high-income earners. Its mostly lower-middle class and you know that metro north fares often go up at higher rates and percentages than normal subway and buses. If the link and station was open right now, it would be $7 peak and $5.25 off peak, based upon comparable fares (GCT to fordham, GCT to Riverdale).
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#498027 - 04/27/10 09:34 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: TwoTimer]
Allan Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
I hope by time it gets there it will still be affordable, given that Co-op is not exactly blessed with high-income earners. Its mostly lower-middle class and you know that metro north fares often go up at higher rates and percentages than normal subway and buses. If the link and station was open right now, it would be $7 peak and $5.25 off peak, based upon comparable fares (GCT to fordham, GCT to Riverdale).


Pardon me? LOWER MIDDLE CLASS?????????!!!!!!!!

I have lived in Co-Op City for a long time and I can assure that the community is NOT lower middle class. It is middle class. I will concede that some of the people living here are lower class but that is a small handful. Most people here have good jobs and make a decent living and care for the place. You have to pay to buy your apartment and while it ranges around $25,000 it is still nothing to sneeze at. It is the low monthly cost that keeps the people with the good salaries here.
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#498028 - 04/27/10 09:39 AM Re: original irt system. [Re: RokuSix]
Allan Offline
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Originally Posted By: RokuSix
If the changes are made, getting there will be even worse from the other sections. The only bus making full circle will be the QBx1, maybe the Bx30, I'm not sure.


You are correct, only the QBx1 will be covering all the sections.

The Bx28 will cover Section 5 and go out to Gun Hill Rd on Bartow Av (no service into Asch Loop or other sections). The Bx 26 will start in Section 5, out on Bartow Av, then go thru Asch Loop back on to Bartow and then to Allerton.

The only change to the Bx30 is that it won't go into Asch Loop anymore. It will stay are Bartow Av and make the right onto Baychester Av.

The New Bx38 will start in Bay Plaza, and cover Co-Op City Blvd, Dreiser Loop and Baychester Av (where the Bx28 used to go).

I have a feeling that the Bx28 will cover all sections during overnight hours.
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#498046 - 04/28/10 09:16 PM Re: original irt system. [Re: Allan]
RokuSix Offline


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As much as I love this conversation, let's try to keep it on topic. Any discussions regarding the transit shenanigans in the Bronx should be moved to a separate thread.
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