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#497502 - 03/25/10 07:57 PM The (W) On Astoria And Broadway
EE Broadway Local Offline

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How do you feel, good or bad, about the pending loss of the (W) on the Astoria Line and Broadway and what impacts do you think the loss of the (W) will have on the (N) and (R)?


Edited by EE Broadway Local (03/25/10 07:59 PM)
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#497506 - 03/26/10 01:45 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: EE Broadway Local]
TwoTimer Offline
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You forgot to include the (Q). Really no difference, its just a transfer to the R now for lower Manhattan, chances are you'll pass one by 14th st during the peak (that's why I suggested leaving the N express thru 57th to increase that possibility or make it go local thru lower Manhattan as well). This is another line that may never return when better days arrive.
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#497513 - 03/26/10 06:29 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: TwoTimer]
R160Etrain Offline
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I would have done this

N/Q/R stay the same, W is eliminated.

Just give the W trains to the N/R problem solved, and just have the added R's terminate at Whitehall st during rush hours.

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#497526 - 03/26/10 03:07 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: R160Etrain]
Q113LTD Offline
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What would you do when the SAS is built? Revive the (W)?
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#497539 - 03/27/10 03:48 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Q113LTD]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: Q113LTD
What would you do when the SAS is built? Revive the (W)?


No, that's why I said the Q stays the same, under my plan the Q STAYS AT 57 st, that way when SAS comes the Q simply extends to the UES.

As I've said millions of times the N/R just need to run more trains per hour, the W was never needed in the first place which is why I continue to scratch my head on why the MTA refuses to just increase on the N/R lines during rush hour.

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#497558 - 03/28/10 05:36 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: R160Etrain]
A-train Offline
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Yeah but nobody wants an N loc unless they really need it, they will prefer Q exp.
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#497560 - 03/28/10 05:48 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: A-train]
A-train Offline
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Originally Posted By: A-train
It depends on which direction. People going uptown into Queens, then they will choose either N/Q/R. However, people going downtown into Brooklyn will prefer Q exp, over N/R just because its on a loc track. I personally know that loc trains are not always far behind an exp. Everyone else thinks that just because they see a train on a loc track, they think its slow. See you really need to know how people think.
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#497562 - 03/28/10 07:19 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: A-train]
TwoTimer Offline
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Well its not even the whole express v local thing, its the fact that the express in this case goes over the bridge. If everything went over the bridge, people wouldnt care what showed up first (unless they showed up at the same time). The express run on the Broadway line is not long at all, basically from Canal to 34. Plus, there are a lot of shoppers who's main concern is to have room for themselves and their bags. Now the difference between going on the bridge and going thru the tunnel is 8-10 minutes pending on the time of day, so that takes preference of course.

Case and point, the N is local on weekends but goes over the bridge, while the R goes thru the tunnel. People get on that N as long as they know its going over the bridge, they do not care that its local in Manhattan. Now if a Q and a N are coming in together, no brainer which one to get on if ur going somewhere both go to.
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#497577 - 03/29/10 08:25 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: TwoTimer]
marcmail Offline
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The Q to Queens weekdays till evenings is going to see a new crush load of people in June...while the R could see a bit less people due to the N local on bway as people wont have to transfer from the N to the R for bway lcl stops! Just there will still be the bottle necking at 34th st switch, when all trains merger on to and from the lcl tracks!

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#497581 - 03/29/10 05:03 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: marcmail]
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Yeah and what about when the N switching loc and exp between Prince and Canal.
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#497586 - 03/29/10 05:24 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: A-train]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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At least one bottleneck will be eased. At 34th Street, a switching N train holds up trains on both the local and express tracks. When the Q goes to Astoria, trains are just held up on the local track, when the Q switches.
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#497590 - 03/29/10 08:52 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: checkmatechamp13]
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To be honest, the MTA's cuts for the Broadway Line are just stupid and unnessary, whats the point of making the N local in Manhattan then merge back with the Q just to run via Manhattan Bridge? The N should just stay express and just increase service on the R that's it, same the with the N.

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#497593 - 03/30/10 11:45 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: R160Etrain]
Sam Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
To be honest, the MTA's cuts for the Broadway Line are just stupid and unnessary, whats the point of making the N local in Manhattan then merge back with the Q just to run via Manhattan Bridge? The N should just stay express and just increase service on the R that's it, same the with the N.


Absolutely. Does the Broadway line need the N to run local? By this "logic," other lines with one local should be supplemented by a current express such as the 5 helping the 6. Just run more R trains commensurate with the demand and keep the N as it was designed to run. No trains should switch at 34th Street either.
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#497610 - 03/31/10 06:39 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Sam]
R32_3348 Offline
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Also, if they run the N local they will likely need an extra train or two on the line to maintain current headways, which means one less crew saved by cutting the W. I can't really blame them though, since it's kind of hard to try and cut costs yet maintain service with as few bottlenecks as possible on Broadway.


Edited by R32_3348 (03/31/10 06:42 PM)

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#497679 - 04/02/10 02:23 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: R160Etrain]
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
To be honest, the MTA's cuts for the Broadway Line are just stupid and unnessary, whats the point of making the N local in Manhattan then merge back with the Q just to run via Manhattan Bridge? The N should just stay express and just increase service on the R that's it, same the with the N.
Overly simplistic. Like the MTA will ever add more R trains... You must be living in a dreamworld if you think just 'adding more trains' to the R will solve anything. The R has to deal with countless merging and that overall causes it to be delayed.
And the loss of the W will just mean those trains will be shifted over to the N and Q.

Ideally they should keep the W for the rush hours and then run the N local middays. Either way Broadway should always have two locals. But you have to be kidding me if you think the R alone can run as a local and the N/Q remaining as is.

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#498075 - 05/02/10 11:46 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Grand Concourse]
CenSin Offline
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The (W) exists so that the (N) can run express. When the (W) is gone, the (N) or the (Q) has to run local, or the (R) has to cut its headway in half. Running the (N) local is a no-brainer given the money problems.
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#498086 - 05/04/10 12:36 AM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: CenSin]
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But it makes no sense to cut the W for the rush hours as they have to send the Q to Astoria in its place. That is why I said they should keep the W for the rush hours, but then run the N local other times.
Cutting the W just means a savings of maybe 2-3 trains, but overall underserving Lower Manhattan south of Canal.

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#498093 - 05/04/10 01:03 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Grand Concourse]
Brighton Line Offline


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Most Q jobs are not penalty jobs so extending to Astoria may not cost more. Getting rid of the W gets rid of "X" amount of crews so they are so call saving money.
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#498094 - 05/04/10 01:26 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Brighton Line]
TwoTimer Offline
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Yup, almost all the Q are 3 trips for straight 8, the penalty jobs have a put-in or layup. The runtime is just under an hour. When it goes up to Astoria full time (instead of just during GO), 3 tripper jobs will be reduced to two trips (its not the runtime to Astoria, its the runtime to Astoria and BACK).

Its not really the cost of using the equipment, its all the related costs (cleaners to clean the trains, supervisory jobs at 57th weekdays, even with the job cuts they all still have to pay all those crews on other lines, the amount of available OT will be reduced in both divisions).
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#498671 - 06/19/10 09:06 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: TwoTimer]
Q89LCL Offline

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Does anybody notice that the W signs are being covered at station entrances and on platforms?
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#498672 - 06/19/10 11:16 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: Q89LCL]
TwoTimer Offline
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Loc: Bronx!
Yup, W is gone in many locales, but no new Q's yet (at 59th)
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#498801 - 06/28/10 01:26 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: EE Broadway Local]
219 Offline
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Originally Posted By: EE Broadway Local
How do you feel, good or bad, about the pending loss of the (W) on the Astoria Line and Broadway and what impacts do you think the loss of the (W) will have on the (N) and (R)?


I feel terrible for the riders who use the Broadway line during the rush hours. I don't think having one express train will work.

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#498803 - 06/28/10 01:58 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: 219]
TwoTimer Offline
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Its not a long express run, there are certain lines in the city where personal space (whether its accompanied by a seat or not) is more important then express, express, express. The Broadway lines might just be one of those lines, where many people are only going to Midtown or Union Sq anyway (from either direction), in which case the express makes less than 2 mins difference. That's probably the reasoning for the N not keeping the express, but having to merge back with the Q north of Canal. As R160 LOVES to say on these boards "the R needs help", lol.

The best "express" run on the Broadway line is in fact going over the bridge, instead of through lower Manhattan. This service pattern actually helps riders on the local stations, giving them weekday service over the bridge from local stations for the first time (before, it was only available on weekends). In fact, this is the most time-saving single run of them all, besting the lovely 125-59 run on the CPW line.


Edited by TwoTimer (06/28/10 01:59 PM)
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#498811 - 06/28/10 03:10 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: TwoTimer]
TwoTimer Offline
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Apparently, the R is being hammered in downtown Brooklyn, as wait times have essentially doubled.
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#498814 - 06/28/10 07:06 PM Re: The (W) On Astoria And Broadway [Re: TwoTimer]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Apparently, the R is being hammered in downtown Brooklyn, as wait times have essentially doubled.


well is the R even crowded below Canal st?

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