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#496846 - 02/22/10 06:29 PM Letting L trains go by
R160Etrain Offline
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Whats the most amount of L trains have you had to let by because it was full?

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#496867 - 02/23/10 01:41 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
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I don't ride the line, but one day on my way visit my cousins in Bushwick, I had to let three (3) pass by while waiting at 1st AVENUE!! After 3 stops it was already full. Reminds me of a Manhattan-bound E train after leaving Sutphin Blvd--already jam packed!
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#496875 - 02/23/10 09:32 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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This morning I let 1 go, and I'm a number of stops into Brooklyn, and as accurately reported by the train arrival times, the next 1 was there in a minute or so. Mercifully, that 2nd train was a Myrtle short-turned, so there was plenty of room for me, but it was at capacity by Lorimer and overcapacity at Bedford. I think the most trains I ever let go by was 4, and I regularly have to let trains go by in the morning. Sometimes in the evenings, I'll take an 8 Ave train 1 stop to 6 Ave, and get on the Brooklyn there instead of being crushed by the mob getting on at Union Sq.
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#496877 - 02/23/10 12:03 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
instead of being crushed by the mob getting on at Union Sq.

Oh what a statement, lol.
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#496911 - 02/24/10 04:07 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
This morning I let 1 go, and I'm a number of stops into Brooklyn, and as accurately reported by the train arrival times, the next 1 was there in a minute or so. Mercifully, that 2nd train was a Myrtle short-turned, so there was plenty of room for me, but it was at capacity by Lorimer and overcapacity at Bedford. I think the most trains I ever let go by was 4, and I regularly have to let trains go by in the morning. Sometimes in the evenings, I'll take an 8 Ave train 1 stop to 6 Ave, and get on the Brooklyn there instead of being crushed by the mob getting on at Union Sq.


What a sad predicament this is. I guess when they constructed the L line they didn't have a clue how popular it would be. Too bad the G train couldn't get such "street cred" in Brooklyn like the L.
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#496916 - 02/24/10 10:48 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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But in more recent times, the MTA had ample opportunity and warning to implement transit infrastructure. The building boom and newcomerification has been in full force for maybe a decade now in Williamsburg. All MTA needed to do was to check building permit filings to see what was going on there. Their plans fell far short and late, as adding more L trains came later and CBTC is apparently not yet fully automated. I think that MTA has done an OK job with L service, they could do better. Also, people need to change their behaviour somewhat. Why leave for work at 8:15 everyday if you already know the trains will be jammed? Leave at 7:45 instead when the trains are (ever so slightly) less crowded.

Also this real estate slump has given MTA precious time to re-adjust the L because as soon as it's over, there are many, many unfinished buildings in Williamsburg that are going to start right back up, and the L is currently overcapacity at peak times.
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#496919 - 02/24/10 11:51 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
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Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!

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#496927 - 02/25/10 04:45 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!


THANK YOU!!!!!!! "The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE"--the best quote in history! Yes, the J NEEDS to go to midtown. The ridership is mediocre and cannot compare to the L during rush hour. As said a few months ago on a J train thread: "The J is a boring neighborhood train". And its true--the only important place it goes in Lower Manhattan (Queens resident could reach the same area by crush loading the E, which they do) and Jamaica (again, the E & F). So the L's Williamsburg & Bushwick residents would find the J useless..and the G is also useless for obvious reasons.
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#496931 - 02/25/10 03:32 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
TwoTimer Offline
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Lets see what the V brings to the table once it gets up to Middle Village. And the same people would also say if all the lines went uptown after the Willie-B that there's no service to lower Manhattan where all the other lines (save 6th Av and the L)!!!!! provide some sort of Lower Manhattan service. One of these lines HAS to go to lower Manhattan!!!!!

(lol)


Edited by TwoTimer (02/25/10 03:34 PM)
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#496937 - 02/25/10 08:08 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
toure Offline
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Yes that's very true. But like you said, lets see what the V has to offer. Hopefully not a mess.
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#496938 - 02/25/10 08:08 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
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Originally Posted By: toure
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!


THANK YOU!!!!!!! "The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE"--the best quote in history! Yes, the J NEEDS to go to midtown. The ridership is mediocre and cannot compare to the L during rush hour. As said a few months ago on a J train thread: "The J is a boring neighborhood train". And its true--the only important place it goes in Lower Manhattan (Queens resident could reach the same area by crush loading the E, which they do) and Jamaica (again, the E & F). So the L's Williamsburg & Bushwick residents would find the J useless..and the G is also useless for obvious reasons.


Yes, someone who agrees with me. I thank you.

Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Lets see what the V brings to the table once it gets up to Middle Village. And the same people would also say if all the lines went uptown after the Willie-B that there's no service to lower Manhattan where all the other lines (save 6th Av and the L)!!!!! provide some sort of Lower Manhattan service. One of these lines HAS to go to lower Manhattan!!!!!

(lol)


While true, A LOT more people are heading towards midtown than lower Manhattan. The J/Z lines take you into Manhattan faster than the L if you are taking the subway from Bway junction, yet people still get off the J, which shows that a lot of people want mid-town access. The J/Z and L lines arent that far from each other which even further proves that the J/M/Z lines go nowhere. J/Z lines have room yet they run less TPH than the L while the L is frequent yet still crush loaded.

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#496940 - 02/25/10 08:39 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: toure
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!


THANK YOU!!!!!!! "The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE"--the best quote in history! Yes, the J NEEDS to go to midtown. The ridership is mediocre and cannot compare to the L during rush hour. As said a few months ago on a J train thread: "The J is a boring neighborhood train". And its true--the only important place it goes in Lower Manhattan (Queens resident could reach the same area by crush loading the E, which they do) and Jamaica (again, the E & F). So the L's Williamsburg & Bushwick residents would find the J useless..and the G is also useless for obvious reasons.


Yes, someone who agrees with me. I thank you.

Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Lets see what the V brings to the table once it gets up to Middle Village. And the same people would also say if all the lines went uptown after the Willie-B that there's no service to lower Manhattan where all the other lines (save 6th Av and the L)!!!!! provide some sort of Lower Manhattan service. One of these lines HAS to go to lower Manhattan!!!!!

(lol)


While true, A LOT more people are heading towards midtown than lower Manhattan. The J/Z lines take you into Manhattan faster than the L if you are taking the subway from Bway junction, yet people still get off the J, which shows that a lot of people want mid-town access. The J/Z and L lines arent that far from each other which even further proves that the J/M/Z lines go nowhere. J/Z lines have room yet they run less TPH than the L while the L is frequent yet still crush loaded.


I couldn't have said it any better! By the time the J/Z leave Alabama Av, you'd think it was the last stop because so many people get off at B'way Junction to get the A, C or L (mostly the L). Then some people get on between Chauncey and Kosciuszko...but the only important stops after B'way Junction are Myrtle Av, Essex St (because of the F at Delancey) and perhaps Canal and Chambers Sts, b/c of the N, R, Q, W, 4, 5 & 6 trains. Fulton as well, b/c of the A, C, 2, 3, 4 & 5. Anyways, getting back on topic--no one really needs the J. The only good thing about it are the R160's and the somewhat nice AM Peak skip-stop service.


Edited by toure (02/25/10 08:43 PM)
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#496963 - 02/27/10 03:14 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
MikeGerald45 Offline
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The MTA's own reports show that a sizeable number of riders are headed to downtown, and midtown - and that the current J, M and Z lines handle a large healthy amount of riders.

Transit fans just have to stop trying to put forth the idea that the J, M and Z lines are lines that "no one rides" - transit fans just have to stop that. Every year the MTA provides the ridership statistics for all of the stations in the system online.

1) It undermines the usefulness of any M-V combination route. If "no one" rides the J-M-Z lines then why extend the V train along a portion of those routes?

2) It shows that some transit fans do not care about the truth, but only so much as it supports their fantasies of the moment. One minute they support the M-V combination, and then the next minute the V-train along Culver, and then the next minute whatever is the new fancy.

3) Transit lines were not built to provide express service and nothing else. Too many transit fans seem to love express service, and anything that is not express - according to them "second class" including the folks who ride those trains.

4) The usefulness of a transit line is not based upon the idea of whether it is "boring" or not, or "with too many stops" that serve healthy neighborhoods that need the service. Most regular riders do not do not choice their transit lines as fashion statements or based upon the types of subway cars that serve the line.

Just a few thoughts.
Mike

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#496965 - 02/28/10 01:29 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: MikeGerald45]
toure Offline
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Preach, brother preach! Lol smile. Nie thoughts. I still hate the J though..but oh well, my opinion by itself doesnt matter.
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#497058 - 03/04/10 01:41 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
bknightshadow Offline
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When I ride the L train I never let one pass me but almost all the time except late nights that the train is crush load. For people thinks that no one rides the J/Z trains and goes no where is false. Sometimes I ride the J train from Jamaica and some cars are SRO or crush load until Broadway Junction. The majority of people from Queens gets off at Broadway Junction but gets crush load again before the train even leaves Broadway Junction but the J/Z trains start empty out Halsey Street and when it reaches Manhattan most people get off either at Chambers St, Fulton St, or Essex St.

As for the M/V combo lets wait and see to see if it works out.
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#497098 - 03/04/10 08:49 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: toure]
R32_3348 Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
But in more recent times, the MTA had ample opportunity and warning to implement transit infrastructure. The building boom and newcomerification has been in full force for maybe a decade now in Williamsburg. All MTA needed to do was to check building permit filings to see what was going on there. Their plans fell far short and late, as adding more L trains came later and CBTC is apparently not yet fully automated. I think that MTA has done an OK job with L service, they could do better. Also, people need to change their behaviour somewhat. Why leave for work at 8:15 everyday if you already know the trains will be jammed? Leave at 7:45 instead when the trains are (ever so slightly) less crowded.

Also this real estate slump has given MTA precious time to re-adjust the L because as soon as it's over, there are many, many unfinished buildings in Williamsburg that are going to start right back up, and the L is currently overcapacity at peak times.

CBTC would have been fully operational years ago had there been enough R143 cars ordered and with CBTC installed in them. They were ordered before the giant population boom, and the growth of each neighborhood was too much than the spare R143s the MTA had bought. That's why they had to use older cars and basically stall the onset of CBTC until R160s came and are now starting to run with CBTC.

Also, the real estate slump doesn't help the MTA in this case when the vast majority of their budget shortfalls since 2008 have been caused by lower-than-projected real estate revenues.

Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!

Not true at all. J trains are packed during rush hour and SRO during middays. If there were no J line then vast, VAST areas of Queens would not have any access to subway service. I would also not call a line that connects to almost all of the big places in the Financial District, along with nearly every other subway line "the line to nowhere".

Originally Posted By: toure
THANK YOU!!!!!!! "The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE"--the best quote in history! Yes, the J NEEDS to go to midtown. The ridership is mediocre and cannot compare to the L during rush hour. As said a few months ago on a J train thread: "The J is a boring neighborhood train". And its true--the only important place it goes in Lower Manhattan (Queens resident could reach the same area by crush loading the E, which they do) and Jamaica (again, the E & F). So the L's Williamsburg & Bushwick residents would find the J useless..and the G is also useless for obvious reasons.

The J is far, FAR from a "boring neighborhood train". There is NO OTHER SUBWAY LINE from Broadway Junction to Jamaica via Fulton St. or Jamaica Ave. A large part of J ridership, if not most of it comes from that section of the line, seeing as that is in fact the majority of the J line itself. Ridership is not mediocre at all, trains are packed at rush hour in peak direction (just like any other). Of course the L residents would find the J useless, since they don't exactly run all that close to each other save for Williamsburg.

I commented on the G's usefulness in another thread.

Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Lets see what the V brings to the table once it gets up to Middle Village. And the same people would also say if all the lines went uptown after the Willie-B that there's no service to lower Manhattan where all the other lines (save 6th Av and the L)!!!!! provide some sort of Lower Manhattan service. One of these lines HAS to go to lower Manhattan!!!!!

(lol)

Exactly.
Originally Posted By: toure
I couldn't have said it any better! By the time the J/Z leave Alabama Av, you'd think it was the last stop because so many people get off at B'way Junction to get the A, C or L (mostly the L). Then some people get on between Chauncey and Kosciuszko...but the only important stops after B'way Junction are Myrtle Av, Essex St (because of the F at Delancey) and perhaps Canal and Chambers Sts, b/c of the N, R, Q, W, 4, 5 & 6 trains. Fulton as well, b/c of the A, C, 2, 3, 4 & 5. Anyways, getting back on topic--no one really needs the J. The only good thing about it are the R160's and the somewhat nice AM Peak skip-stop service.
Many many people need the J. That's like saying no one needs the 7 train because aside from Flushing and Bayside riders no one uses the line.

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#497159 - 03/06/10 08:47 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R32_3348]
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I think its safe to say that the only reason the J even gets jam-packed is because of its LONG headways. Maybe way we went too far to say that its nothing more than a neighborhood train, but the fact that a good number if not a lot of people get off the J at Bway Junction, even though it gets you to Manhattan faster than the A/C/L, even when its not running myrtle-marcy peak express says a lot. Because there is only one line that offers service close to mid-town manhattan in the williamsburg area and that is a heavy burden that's hurting the L line. Plus a good number of people get off the J at Essex st also.


Edited by R160Etrain (03/06/10 08:48 PM)

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#497197 - 03/08/10 10:10 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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In the morning rush, the J M Z combo is all SRO, and nearly at capacity from Marcy over the bridge. The trains arrive at Marcy in groups, and the last few cars of the M (typically the last of the 3 grouped trains at Marcy) only usually have a fair amount or SR. There are no seats. A good number of passengers, half or more, change trains at Essex or Canal for uptown service while the remainder continue downtown. Very few continue on the M back into Brooklyn.
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#497218 - 03/08/10 08:50 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
TwoTimer Offline
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Not everyone is trying to get to Manhattan, downtown Brooklyn is a destination too and the J doesnt go down there.
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#497265 - 03/10/10 12:51 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R32_3348]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: R32_3348
Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
But in more recent times, the MTA had ample opportunity and warning to implement transit infrastructure. The building boom and newcomerification has been in full force for maybe a decade now in Williamsburg. All MTA needed to do was to check building permit filings to see what was going on there. Their plans fell far short and late, as adding more L trains came later and CBTC is apparently not yet fully automated. I think that MTA has done an OK job with L service, they could do better. Also, people need to change their behaviour somewhat. Why leave for work at 8:15 everyday if you already know the trains will be jammed? Leave at 7:45 instead when the trains are (ever so slightly) less crowded.

Also this real estate slump has given MTA precious time to re-adjust the L because as soon as it's over, there are many, many unfinished buildings in Williamsburg that are going to start right back up, and the L is currently overcapacity at peak times.

CBTC would have been fully operational years ago had there been enough R143 cars ordered and with CBTC installed in them. They were ordered before the giant population boom, and the growth of each neighborhood was too much than the spare R143s the MTA had bought. That's why they had to use older cars and basically stall the onset of CBTC until R160s came and are now starting to run with CBTC.

Also, the real estate slump doesn't help the MTA in this case when the vast majority of their budget shortfalls since 2008 have been caused by lower-than-projected real estate revenues.

Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Im not an L rider but seriously the one of the J/M/Z lines have to go to midtown. The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE while everyone else crushloads onto the L, the L is practically serving the Williamsburg area BY ITSELF!

Not true at all. J trains are packed during rush hour and SRO during middays. If there were no J line then vast, VAST areas of Queens would not have any access to subway service. I would also not call a line that connects to almost all of the big places in the Financial District, along with nearly every other subway line "the line to nowhere".

Originally Posted By: toure
THANK YOU!!!!!!! "The J/M/Z continue to go NO WHERE"--the best quote in history! Yes, the J NEEDS to go to midtown. The ridership is mediocre and cannot compare to the L during rush hour. As said a few months ago on a J train thread: "The J is a boring neighborhood train". And its true--the only important place it goes in Lower Manhattan (Queens resident could reach the same area by crush loading the E, which they do) and Jamaica (again, the E & F). So the L's Williamsburg & Bushwick residents would find the J useless..and the G is also useless for obvious reasons.

The J is far, FAR from a "boring neighborhood train". There is NO OTHER SUBWAY LINE from Broadway Junction to Jamaica via Fulton St. or Jamaica Ave. A large part of J ridership, if not most of it comes from that section of the line, seeing as that is in fact the majority of the J line itself. Ridership is not mediocre at all, trains are packed at rush hour in peak direction (just like any other). Of course the L residents would find the J useless, since they don't exactly run all that close to each other save for Williamsburg.

I commented on the G's usefulness in another thread.

Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Lets see what the V brings to the table once it gets up to Middle Village. And the same people would also say if all the lines went uptown after the Willie-B that there's no service to lower Manhattan where all the other lines (save 6th Av and the L)!!!!! provide some sort of Lower Manhattan service. One of these lines HAS to go to lower Manhattan!!!!!

(lol)

Exactly.
Originally Posted By: toure
I couldn't have said it any better! By the time the J/Z leave Alabama Av, you'd think it was the last stop because so many people get off at B'way Junction to get the A, C or L (mostly the L). Then some people get on between Chauncey and Kosciuszko...but the only important stops after B'way Junction are Myrtle Av, Essex St (because of the F at Delancey) and perhaps Canal and Chambers Sts, b/c of the N, R, Q, W, 4, 5 & 6 trains. Fulton as well, b/c of the A, C, 2, 3, 4 & 5. Anyways, getting back on topic--no one really needs the J. The only good thing about it are the R160's and the somewhat nice AM Peak skip-stop service.
Many many people need the J. That's like saying no one needs the 7 train because aside from Flushing and Bayside riders no one uses the line.


The 7 cannot be compared to the J. Yes, it can be called neighborhood train like the J, but atleast it serves many different neighborhoods, and seems to always be packed. And it has a nice express run. Rush hours trains are ridiculously crowded on the 7. It also serves the busiest station in the system, as well as stopping at Grand Central, another major transit hub. The point is, it serves midtown, something the J needs to do.
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#497266 - 03/10/10 12:56 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
I think its safe to say that the only reason the J even gets jam-packed is because of its LONG headways. Maybe way we went too far to say that its nothing more than a neighborhood train, but the fact that a good number if not a lot of people get off the J at Bway Junction, even though it gets you to Manhattan faster than the A/C/L, even when its not running myrtle-marcy peak express says a lot. Because there is only one line that offers service close to mid-town manhattan in the williamsburg area and that is a heavy burden that's hurting the L line. Plus a good number of people get off the J at Essex st also.


I've always thought that J headways were either very bad or somewhat okay. But yes, many people get off at Essex, being its the first in Manhattan, as is the case with many other lines as they enter their first Manhattan stop, coming from Queens or Brooklyn. Many, like my coworker get off at Essex so they can get the F on their way to MIDTOWN.
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#497267 - 03/10/10 12:59 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
toure Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Not everyone is trying to get to Manhattan, downtown Brooklyn is a destination too and the J doesnt go down there.


B/c Manhattan's level of importance is wayyy higher.

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#497275 - 03/10/10 09:26 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R32_3348]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
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Originally Posted By: R32_3348
Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
But in more recent times, the MTA had ample opportunity and warning to implement transit infrastructure. The building boom and newcomerification has been in full force for maybe a decade now in Williamsburg. All MTA needed to do was to check building permit filings to see what was going on there. Their plans fell far short and late, as adding more L trains came later and CBTC is apparently not yet fully automated. I think that MTA has done an OK job with L service, they could do better. Also, people need to change their behaviour somewhat. Why leave for work at 8:15 everyday if you already know the trains will be jammed? Leave at 7:45 instead when the trains are (ever so slightly) less crowded.

Also this real estate slump has given MTA precious time to re-adjust the L because as soon as it's over, there are many, many unfinished buildings in Williamsburg that are going to start right back up, and the L is currently overcapacity at peak times.

CBTC would have been fully operational years ago had there been enough R143 cars ordered and with CBTC installed in them. They were ordered before the giant population boom, and the growth of each neighborhood was too much than the spare R143s the MTA had bought. That's why they had to use older cars and basically stall the onset of CBTC until R160s came and are now starting to run with CBTC.

Also, the real estate slump doesn't help the MTA in this case when the vast majority of their budget shortfalls since 2008 have been caused by lower-than-projected real estate revenues.



But the MTA is top heavy with managers and planners who should be planning even as we post. Planning is an ongoing, extended process that economic cycles should not directly affect. Since I see the same sorry cast of characters going in and out of MTAHQ every day, they should take this lull in the Williamsburg explosion and figure out their solution before, and it will be inevitable, Williamsburg grows even more.
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#497286 - 03/10/10 10:57 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
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Posts: 459
Loc: Bronx!
But exactly how many trains can be crammed in there, and T/O's still have to operate in manual into and out of terminals. CBTC as a whole hasnt been all it cracked up to be.
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#497301 - 03/11/10 02:28 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
Transport Workers Union Steward
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
That's the question for the planners. And they may also want to perform an alternative analysis, such as running the proposed bus service from Williamsburg to Midtown, or anything that takes the load off the L. I mean there are so many more residential projects in Williamsburg, high rise ones. I wonder how, once they are completed and occupied, the L will be able to support growing ridership when it's already at and over capacity at times during the rush. That's what I mean. This is not haphazard. The MTA is our local transit agency. Someone needs to plan for this.
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#497311 - 03/12/10 05:50 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
TwoTimer Offline
Bus Driver
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Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 459
Loc: Bronx!
As far as I know, there are few or none express bus options to anywhere within roughly 30 mins of midtown... or people have to learn to leave earlier. There's going to be no expansion (no money for that), line capacity is measured by its capacity at its choke point, not in other places where more trains can potentially run (you hear that <L> people). The reason its so jammed is b/c Williamsburg is so close to midtown and lower Manhattan that a lot of people take the extra half hour or hour of sleep that those further out can't afford, which crushes the line within minutes. People just have to leave earlier.

On other longer jaunts (2)(6)(Q)(D) for example, its more of a slow building rush hour.
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#497339 - 03/14/10 04:03 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
R32_3348 Offline
MTA Executive
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Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 4456
Loc: Jackson Heights
Originally Posted By: toure
The 7 cannot be compared to the J. Yes, it can be called neighborhood train like the J, but atleast it serves many different neighborhoods, and seems to always be packed. And it has a nice express run. Rush hours trains are ridiculously crowded on the 7. It also serves the busiest station in the system, as well as stopping at Grand Central, another major transit hub. The point is, it serves midtown, something the J needs to do.
Originally Posted By: toure
[quote=TwoTimer]Not everyone is trying to get to Manhattan, downtown Brooklyn is a destination too and the J doesnt go down there.

The J is a longer line than the 7 and actually serves more neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens than the 7 does. Rush hour trains are also "ridiculously crowded" on the J too. While the 7 serves a major transit hub at Grand Central, the J serves another major transit hub at Fulton St. And the whole point of the J is to offer a one-seat ride to downtown Manhattan without going through Midtown.
Originally Posted By: toure
B/c Manhattan's level of importance is wayyy higher.
That's ignoring his point...
Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
But the MTA is top heavy with managers and planners who should be planning even as we post. Planning is an ongoing, extended process that economic cycles should not directly affect. Since I see the same sorry cast of characters going in and out of MTAHQ every day, they should take this lull in the Williamsburg explosion and figure out their solution before, and it will be inevitable, Williamsburg grows even more.

They are figuring out that solution, which is fully implementing CBTC on the line. In fact they will be able to remove all of the old automatic signals on the line by the middle of next year when implementation is complete.

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#497358 - 03/15/10 08:25 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R32_3348]
R160Etrain Offline
Transportation Alternatives Organizer
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1937
You CANNOT compare the J to the 7. For one thing the 7 runs 30 TPH while the J only runs a mere 6 TPH, 12 TPH if the Z is running, so basically excluding the Z, the 7 runs 5 TIMES the amount of J trains. Also there is more ridership along 42 st than there is along the Nassau st line, Essex to Broad st. Also 7 trains are longer than the J, plus almost every station along the 7 is busy especially Main st, while the stations along the J in Queens/Brooklyn barely get any ridership and are at best decent.

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#497360 - 03/15/10 09:23 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
TwoTimer Offline
Bus Driver
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Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 459
Loc: Bronx!
7 runs more off-peak than the J runs during the rush lol, and the "longer train" excuse most B division trains use isnt even applicable.
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#497492 - 03/25/10 02:42 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
Q89LCL Offline


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Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 3027
Loc: Brooklyn,NY
all in the fact L neeeds a Plan that will Decrease SRO Rush hrs and Eliviate to the other lines that's why the new M will do just that.
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#498906 - 07/03/10 11:15 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: TwoTimer]
CNR_Cr Offline
Tourist

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Canarsie
Depends on your point of view and how much you value a minute. Without 'CBTC'/'ATO', the total trip time from Canarsie to 8th Avenue, is 40 minutes, peak travel time. The same trip with 'ATO' available the entire length, is 34 minutes, hence the ability to add more trains and carry a 3 minute headway (at times) with all the curves, twists and turns (utilizing timers in the 'old system', thereby extending trip time) on the line.

As far as the T/O's operating in 'ATPM' (Automatic Train Protection - Manual) mode leaving the terminal, this in accordance with NYCT safety rules. The T/O is required to make a sensitive rolling test (all brakes have released) upon leaving the terminal - regardless of equipment.

Hope the sheds some light...
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#498907 - 07/03/10 11:22 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R32_3348]
CNR_Cr Offline
Tourist

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Canarsie
Just better hope you don't have to put a train into 'BYPASS' after eliminating all those automatics..... those are going to be some very loonnngggg signal blocks you have there, hence fer sure a delay in service. Think the trains are crowded now......
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#499460 - 10/05/10 05:55 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
Shawn_Chittle Offline
Tourist
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Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 1
Loc: USA
This is New York, there is no such thing as a full train, especially on the L, where it's full of suburban kids from Williamsburg and other diet Manhattan neighborhoods who are not used to having virtually no personal space.

What looks like a "full" train turns out to be 2/3 full when people actually step in and compress together.

As such, never pass on a "full" train. Just push your way on, there is a ton of space in those cars.

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#499461 - 10/05/10 07:34 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: Shawn_Chittle]
Allan Offline
TWU President
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Registered: 10/05/00
Posts: 3066
Loc: N.E. Bronx, NY
Originally Posted By: Shawn_Chittle
This is New York, there is no such thing as a full train, ......


Obviously you have never ridden on the 4 or 5 train in Manhattan during the rush hours.
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#499517 - 10/19/10 08:25 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: Shawn_Chittle]
RokuSix Offline

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Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 4081
Loc: The Bronx!
Originally Posted By: Shawn_Chittle
This is New York, there is no such thing as a full train, especially on the L, where it's full of suburban kids from Williamsburg and other diet Manhattan neighborhoods who are not used to having virtually no personal space.

What looks like a "full" train turns out to be 2/3 full when people actually step in and compress together.

As such, never pass on a "full" train. Just push your way on, there is a ton of space in those cars.


I have to agree with the part about the hipsters. That could very well be the case with the L.

Just my bias.
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#499712 - 12/16/10 04:29 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: Shawn_Chittle]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
Transport Workers Union Steward
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Shawn_Chittle
This is New York, there is no such thing as a full train, especially on the L, where it's full of suburban kids from Williamsburg and other diet Manhattan neighborhoods who are not used to having virtually no personal space.

What looks like a "full" train turns out to be 2/3 full when people actually step in and compress together.

As such, never pass on a "full" train. Just push your way on, there is a ton of space in those cars.


To the contrary, the L is at and over capacity during most of the rush hour, and there are few 'suburban kids from Williamsburg" (Williamsburg is not a suburb) on board. Most are working stiffs just tryin' to make a livin' or school kids.
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#499767 - 12/29/10 10:32 AM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: R160Etrain]
Q89LCL Offline


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Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 3027
Loc: Brooklyn,NY
this thread has no more of a ending so im going to say get to the point.
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#499771 - 12/29/10 01:26 PM Re: Letting L trains go by [Re: Q89LCL]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
Transport Workers Union Steward
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Q89LCL
this thread has no more of a ending so im going to say get to the point.


?
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