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#495533 - 01/07/10 02:25 PM The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think
R32_3348 Offline
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Since there's no main thread on this subject I'm going to post recent developments on these cars here.

Keep in mind that what is being discussed here is not necessarily set in stone and may be subject to change.

Recently, 8 R44s were pulled from service and tested for structural integrity problems. If the results of this test lead to the finding of significant structural problems on the R44s then they will look to retire them instead of the R32s and R44s currently being retired. Currently, the reefing program has been suspended for this reason.

If the R44s are retired, then R46s will be transferred from Jamaica to Pitkin (the original plan to retire the R32s was to send the R46s to 207 anyway).

On a related note, they are looking to merge the M and V lines as part of their service cuts. This idea is also still in the planning stages and subject to change. If they are going to go through with this, then this will free up cars from the V as the new route will only require a few more trains (~4) than the current M route. This would also help to free up cars to retire the R44s, should they choose to.


Edited by R32_3348 (01/07/10 02:27 PM)

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#495537 - 01/07/10 02:57 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R32_3348]
R40M_4421 Offline
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im seeing a lot more R32's Servicing the (A) these past couple of days
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#495539 - 01/07/10 03:15 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
R32_3348 Offline
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Just curious, when have you been seeing them? I've been trying to get them during the midday hours but I haven't gotten any. I've seen them around during the rush, of course.

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#495540 - 01/07/10 03:18 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R32_3348]
R40M_4421 Offline
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i normally see many at night, from 6:30 to 7:05 i dont normally see them during midday unless its a weekend. at bway jct u can catch an R32 (A) around 6:00pm to 6:45pm normally thats when i would catch one
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#495542 - 01/07/10 03:31 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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I was on the 8th Ave/CPW last night and observed only the typical assignements, R160 E's, R68 B's and D's, R44 A's and R32 C's. This was about 6 and then again 8:30
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#495544 - 01/07/10 03:37 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
R40M_4421 Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
I was on the 8th Ave/CPW last night and observed only the typical assignements, R160 E's, R68 B's and D's, R44 A's and R32 C's. This was about 6 and then again 8:30
KEY WORD; "last night" also u observed for probably about 10 mins each time, of course ur not gunna spot an R32 on the (A). normally the (A) runs 2 to 4 R32's a day. i've seen R32's on the (A) back to back twice this week. and the assignments didnt change with the (E)(B)(C) or (D) lines execpt for 1 R32 that runs on the (B) rarely


Edited by R40M_4421 (01/07/10 03:39 PM)
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#495545 - 01/07/10 04:41 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
Princelex Offline
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I heard that the reefing program was suspended but I didnt think it had to do with the R44's but now it makes sense. I love the R44's but I really think it's time for them to be retired. The R32's that have been reefed should have never happened. Now we are seeing why that was a huge mistake on the MTA's part but its not surprising. It's the MTA for God's sake.
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#495546 - 01/07/10 04:50 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
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Originally Posted By: R40M_4421
Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
I was on the 8th Ave/CPW last night and observed only the typical assignements, R160 E's, R68 B's and D's, R44 A's and R32 C's. This was about 6 and then again 8:30
KEY WORD; "last night" also u observed for probably about 10 mins each time, of course ur not gunna spot an R32 on the (A). normally the (A) runs 2 to 4 R32's a day. i've seen R32's on the (A) back to back twice this week. and the assignments didnt change with the (E)(B)(C) or (D) lines execpt for 1 R32 that runs on the (B) rarely


i wish it was only 10 minutes at least the uptown trip on the D. let's just say it's given me a new appreciation for the L. the downtown trip later on the A was quite pleasant though.


Edited by NX Sea Beach Express (01/07/10 04:51 PM)
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#495551 - 01/07/10 09:45 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: Princelex]
R42 4811 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Princelex
I heard that the reefing program was suspended but I didnt think it had to do with the R44's but now it makes sense. I love the R44's but I really think it's time for them to be retired. The R32's that have been reefed should have never happened. Now we are seeing why that was a huge mistake on the MTA's part but its not surprising. It's the MTA for God's sake.




I don't think you could blame the MTA for retiring most of the
R32 cars,the problem with the R44 came out of the blue and they
didn't see expect it to happen.
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#495552 - 01/07/10 11:53 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R42 4811]
G_Crosstown Offline
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This is all speculation, but yes, this is how I see it:

Z Train eliminated

M train to 71st - Continental, it would need only 4 more sets then it does now. It can get that from the Z. (The Z uses 6 sets, the remaining 2 would probably stay at ENY as spares for the J.)

V Train eliminated - This will free up 15 sets of R46 to go to Pitkin.

W Train eliminated - This will free up 9 sets of R160 which will probably go to Jamaica to completely fill the F and maybe to give two or three sets to the R. 9 sets of R46 can then travel to Pitkin.

Jamaica will most likely send its remaining two sets of R32 to Pitkin ASAP.

This means that Pitkin can retire off 24 sets of trains in addition to the number of remaining SMEES. With this in mind, the MTA will probably retire off all the R42's as originally planned as well as make the C a full length train. Then they have two options, they can either retire off all the R32's as planned and keep the remaining 10 sets of R44, of course the ones in the worst condition being the first to go and probably keeping a few as spares OR they can retire off all the R44' and just keep a 100 or so cars of R32 still around for to make the remaining 10 sets needed.

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#495562 - 01/08/10 03:59 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: G_Crosstown]
R40M_4421 Offline
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...a few things Wrong with your statements;
it is the M train thats up 4 elimination NOT the V. The W's R160's stays at coney island to make the N/Q fully R160 and the rest of the R68'S that the Q used either GO TO THE B or transferred to 207 ST Yard. if the R68's from the Q line serve/run on the B, that 1 set of R32 from the B goes to 207 STREET. NO R160 from coney island will be transferred to Jamaica, because Jamaica is getting more new R160 fleets.
what "remaining" 10 sets of R44?? the A line has more than 10 sets of R44's. nothing is being retired yet, and if it were, it will ONLY BE SOME R44's. the only statement that i find feasable is "Jamaica transferring their R32's to 207 street yard."if anything, the A/C trains will be the only lines with 236 R32's.


Edited by R40M_4421 (01/08/10 04:03 PM)
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#495613 - 01/09/10 03:28 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
marcmail Offline
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how can the M/V routes be merged?

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#495614 - 01/09/10 06:53 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: marcmail]
Grand Concourse Offline
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It's a really on going fantasy idea to have the two lines combined to get ENY [close to it] riders a direct to Midtown ride than to transfer to the F or the L.
What would need to be done is to swap some R46s with some of Pitkin's R32s so the Queens Blvd end of the line can run 8-car trains. Of course since the M would no longer run to southern Brooklyn, that frees up trains to use.
Since the V is not crowded, it can stand to lose 120' of train and would make the train more 'crowded'. That's pretty much the basic idea of the combo line.

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#495621 - 01/09/10 11:24 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: Grand Concourse]
B13 SPRING CRK GATEWAY MALL Offline

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Does this V/M merge have a realistic chance of happening? How? Where are the sources? Lol
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#495627 - 01/10/10 12:55 AM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: B13 SPRING CRK GATEWAY MALL]
Grand Concourse Offline
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It's really more a rumor mill thing. I really doubt it. I only favor it for the 'cost savings'. As in a merged line would make better use than the current 'dead ends' of each line. And by cutting V trains to 480' trains, you free up 120' worth of extra cars to run, which could mean maybe a boost for G service or longer cars again [but 8-car trains as the AA pairs are on the A now].

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#495639 - 01/10/10 02:24 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: Grand Concourse]
marcmail Offline
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Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
It's really more a rumor mill thing. I really doubt it. I only favor it for the 'cost savings'. As in a merged line would make better use than the current 'dead ends' of each line. And by cutting V trains to 480' trains, you free up 120' worth of extra cars to run, which could mean maybe a boost for G service or longer cars again [but 8-car trains as the AA pairs are on the A now].


I could see the V/M becoming the M running 8 car r160's, I can see the G becoming a full time courthouse sq last stop line very soon! Also i can see the M keeping the same running times to queens blvd the same times as it does now..and being cut short as a shuttle late nites as it does now! Sad to say it would lead QBlvd with just 1 local train line on the weekends unless the E becomes a wkend local train? The R by its self headways are the worst on the weekends and i dont think the MTA will give the V or M over nite nor weekend service!!

Btw nice arrangement would be the A going all R46 the C all R32 then later R46'S or R68's, The F and Q going all R160. Mix car types on a line is just bad!

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#495648 - 01/10/10 04:16 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: B13 SPRING CRK GATEWAY MALL]
R32_3348 Offline
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Originally Posted By: B13 SPRING CRK GATEWAY MALL
Does this V/M merge have a realistic chance of happening? How? Where are the sources? Lol
It's being discussed under Operations and Planning, but nothing is set in stone yet. I personally will believe it when I see it (seeing as it has to go through numerous stages like the hearings...if they decide to do them).

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#495658 - 01/10/10 10:32 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R32_3348]
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V/M merge would almost certainly be called V if you ask me.
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#495682 - 01/12/10 08:13 AM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: Pacific Command 2524]
marcmail Offline
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looks like it will be called the V.....dumping the letting M MTA just loves that V

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#496567 - 02/13/10 08:30 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: marcmail]
EE Broadway Local Offline

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I've heard the R44s may begin to be retired.
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#496582 - 02/14/10 03:19 AM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: EE Broadway Local]
toure Offline
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Yeah someone here at RD has a slew (did I spell that right?) of things to say about R44's from rotting roofs to deteriorating brakes.
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#496639 - 02/15/10 03:04 AM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: toure]
A-train Offline
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I've read from the (NYC Transit Forum) that they are planning the process to retire R44s from A and from the system. They will replace it will R32/R46 on A, then put R44 on C for while before elimination. They have served well on the A-line for many years, and I will truly miss them. R46 car will carry on the legacy, since they're very similar to R44. Except it has General Electric motors, instead of Westinghouse motors like R44. The missing glass by the door, that the R44 have. Different sound of the doors closing. R46 have sliding cab doors, R44 have pull or push and slimmer cab doors.
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#496645 - 02/15/10 01:14 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: A-train]
R42 4811 Offline
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Registered: 06/14/03
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Loc: Brooklny,NY
Don't know if that part about the R44's going to the C line is
true,their retirement though is likely gonna happen.
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#496646 - 02/15/10 02:15 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R42 4811]
R40M_4421 Offline
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Registered: 03/13/09
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The R32's are going to Dominate the (A) line. it will almost be just as the (E) was in 2008. (A) riders might have to suffer hot cars in the summer. maybe 20 R32's might run along with 18 R46's. the R44's will be on the (C) 144 cars 18 (trainsets) (max)
as more R46's come in, they will displace the R44's on the (C). the (C) will be fully R46 in the fall of 2010 and then the (A)'s R32's will start 2 be displaced by more R46's in the future.
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#496647 - 02/15/10 03:27 PM Re: The R44s May be Gone Sooner than you Think [Re: R40M_4421]
R40M_4421 Offline
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Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 336
Loc: Bklyn, NY
Originally Posted By: R40M_4421
The R32's are going to Dominate the (A) line. it will almost be just as the (E) was in 2008. (A) riders might have to suffer hot cars in the summer. maybe 20 R32's might run along with 18 R46's. the R44's will be on the (C) 144 cars 18 (trainsets) (max)
as more R46's come in, they will displace the R44's on the (C). the (C) will be fully R46 in the fall of 2010 and then the (A)'s R32's will start 2 be displaced by more R46's in the future.
Wrong info. the R44's wont be on the C. they will remain on the A line. the A will still run 2 to 3 sets of R32's if necessary.
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