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#473653 - 03/08/09 09:56 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Forest Glen]
EQ_Express Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 264
I'm not really a fan of the skip-stop as I might have to transfer to another train just to go a few local stations...

What if we split the line in half? Have the normal L during rush hours run local to Myrtle-Wyckoff Aves only (there's a third track IIRC that can possibly turn around trains). Then, the <L> runs to Canarsie, skipping all stations between Lorimer and Myrtle (this will save about 3 minutes in riding time). This could perhaps redistribute crowding.

There are 3 problems with this though:
1. The supposed reduction of service would infuriate everyone.
2. The busiest stations are between Lorimer and Myrtle.
3. If they don't empty out the train at Myrtle Ave quickly enough, backups may happen.

Nevermind, let's just use CBTC to add more trains on the line.
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#473681 - 03/09/09 06:46 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: EQ_Express]
R160Etrain Offline
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CONSTRUCTION, thats pretty much the only way the canarsie line is going to have its crowds reduced. Obviously when this line was being built they didnt expect the line to be heavily used, i mean seriously, no express tracks, and the stations can only accomodate 60 ft 8-car sets. Thats the problem with the canarsie and thats what the MTA needs to fix.

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#473715 - 03/09/09 02:36 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
Transport Workers Union Steward
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
CONSTRUCTION, thats pretty much the only way the canarsie line is going to have its crowds reduced. Obviously when this line was being built they didnt expect the line to be heavily used, i mean seriously, no express tracks, and the stations can only accomodate 60 ft 8-car sets. Thats the problem with the canarsie and thats what the MTA needs to fix.


Another problem is that the MTA somehow 'misunderestimated' the size and scope of development of Williamsburg and Bushwick. How this is possible is frankly beyond me. All they need to is check the Dept. of Buildings permit applications, or better yet, maybe just walk through the nabes? After all, the bus service is too infrequent and spotty to give an accurate picture!
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#473758 - 03/09/09 09:40 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: 219]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 18592
Loc: Manhattan
Originally Posted By: 219
I wish there was another track for the (L) so there can possibly a Canarsie Express
But that's not going to help since there are only two tracks under the tunnel and Manhattan. Any advantage of an express would be negated when they have to merge back with the local trains.

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#473772 - 03/09/09 11:30 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: EQ_Express]
Forest Glen Offline
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Loc: Springfield Gardens, Queens
Originally Posted By: EQ_Express
I'm not really a fan of the skip-stop as I might have to transfer to another train just to go a few local stations...

What if we split the line in half? Have the normal L during rush hours run local to Myrtle-Wyckoff Aves only (there's a third track IIRC that can possibly turn around trains). Then, the <L> runs to Canarsie, skipping all stations between Lorimer and Myrtle (this will save about 3 minutes in riding time). This could perhaps redistribute crowding.

There are 3 problems with this though:
1. The supposed reduction of service would infuriate everyone.
2. The busiest stations are between Lorimer and Myrtle.
3. If they don't empty out the train at Myrtle Ave quickly enough, backups may happen.

Nevermind, let's just use CBTC to add more trains on the line.


The busiest L line stations are Union Square, 1st Avenue, Bedford, Lorimer, Myrtle, Broadway Junction, and Rockaway Parkway. Stations like Wilson Avenue are much less congested. Skip stop service would expedite the ride for busier stations while providing slightly less service for the underused stations.
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#473808 - 03/10/09 09:27 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Forest Glen]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
Transport Workers Union Steward
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Lex Express
Originally Posted By: EQ_Express
I'm not really a fan of the skip-stop as I might have to transfer to another train just to go a few local stations...

What if we split the line in half? Have the normal L during rush hours run local to Myrtle-Wyckoff Aves only (there's a third track IIRC that can possibly turn around trains). Then, the <L> runs to Canarsie, skipping all stations between Lorimer and Myrtle (this will save about 3 minutes in riding time). This could perhaps redistribute crowding.

There are 3 problems with this though:
1. The supposed reduction of service would infuriate everyone.
2. The busiest stations are between Lorimer and Myrtle.
3. If they don't empty out the train at Myrtle Ave quickly enough, backups may happen.

Nevermind, let's just use CBTC to add more trains on the line.


The busiest L line stations are Union Square, 1st Avenue, Bedford, Lorimer, Myrtle, Broadway Junction, and Rockaway Parkway. Stations like Wilson Avenue are much less congested. Skip stop service would expedite the ride for busier stations while providing slightly less service for the underused stations.


I don't feel that you can have any sort of skip-stop west of Myrtle. All stations there are moderately to heavily utilized, and skipping stops would anger riders probably more than now when you often have to let a few trains pass before 1 comes with room to board.
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#473836 - 03/10/09 02:45 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Grand Concourse]
R160Etrain Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1937
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Originally Posted By: 219
I wish there was another track for the (L) so there can possibly a Canarsie Express
But that's not going to help since there are only two tracks under the tunnel and Manhattan. Any advantage of an express would be negated when they have to merge back with the local trains.


An express would really help. At least riders south of Myrtle would have a better chance of actually getting a seat.

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#473862 - 03/10/09 04:33 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Originally Posted By: 219
I wish there was another track for the (L) so there can possibly a Canarsie Express
But that's not going to help since there are only two tracks under the tunnel and Manhattan. Any advantage of an express would be negated when they have to merge back with the local trains.


An express would really help. At least riders south of Myrtle would have a better chance of actually getting a seat.


Generally, the L is an east-west route although some stops east and west of Myrtle are more southerly in location.
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#473898 - 03/10/09 09:55 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 18592
Loc: Manhattan
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Originally Posted By: 219
I wish there was another track for the (L) so there can possibly a Canarsie Express
But that's not going to help since there are only two tracks under the tunnel and Manhattan. Any advantage of an express would be negated when they have to merge back with the local trains.


An express would really help. At least riders south of Myrtle would have a better chance of actually getting a seat.
Again, any advantage of an express is negated when trains have to merge back when they have to go thru the east river tunnel. You are not saving any time and just adding extra traffic.


Edited by Grand Concourse (03/10/09 09:56 PM)

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#473945 - 03/11/09 03:21 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Grand Concourse]
R160Etrain Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1937
Its not to save time. Its to reduce crowding, plus the L is skipping stops from Myrtle Av to Lorimer St

<L>-Canarsie Express
Peak directional express between Myrtle Av to Lorimer St.

Plus how are you not saving time by skipping 6 stops?

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#473985 - 03/11/09 08:34 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Because there will be congestion at the station where the local and express have to merge before going thru the East River tunnels. All you do is spread the crowding down to one more line, but in the end as long as there are just two tunnels you won't be changing much.

Let me put it into a simple visual:
an airport adds more planes, but does not build a new runway, you will just have a congestion of planes waiting to take off. This is why you can't just build an express under the L and think it will help the L at all.

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#473997 - 03/11/09 10:55 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Grand Concourse]
Forest Glen Offline
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Posts: 19171
Loc: Springfield Gardens, Queens
I have a plan that would give more service to busier stations and less service to stations like Bushwick-Aberdeen.
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#473998 - 03/11/09 11:06 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Forest Glen]
Grand Concourse Offline
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Registered: 06/26/02
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I really doubt skip-stop is a viable solution for the L. It is not the same situation as the J.

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#474026 - 03/12/09 02:51 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Grand Concourse]
R160Etrain Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
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Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Because there will be congestion at the station where the local and express have to merge before going thru the East River tunnels. All you do is spread the crowding down to one more line, but in the end as long as there are just two tunnels you won't be changing much.

Let me put it into a simple visual:
an airport adds more planes, but does not build a new runway, you will just have a congestion of planes waiting to take off. This is why you can't just build an express under the L and think it will help the L at all.


With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.


Edited by R160Etrain (03/12/09 02:52 PM)

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#474287 - 03/14/09 08:30 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
BX41LTD Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 492
Loc: Morris Heights, The Bronx
I think the (L) is fine the way it is.
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#474390 - 03/15/09 02:58 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
R32_3348 Offline
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Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 4456
Loc: Jackson Heights
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.

With the new tech the L has, and with a redesign of the terminals, you do not need express service on the L. The 7 might have good service but that does not mean that Queensboro Plaza is not a major bottleneck. It is. The L is fine the way it is.

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#474517 - 03/16/09 12:42 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R32_3348]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1470
Loc: Brooklyn
The L needs more trains in general, and particularly into the later evening rush when service starts dropping off although the crowding does not.
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#474679 - 03/17/09 04:07 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R32_3348]
R160Etrain Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1937
Originally Posted By: R32_3348
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.

With the new tech the L has, and with a redesign of the terminals, you do not need express service on the L. The 7 might have good service but that does not mean that Queensboro Plaza is not a major bottleneck. It is. The L is fine the way it is.


Queensboro plaza is not a major bottleneck, out of all the times I have taken the 7 the delays weren't bad at all, maybe a 1 min delay, 2 mins tops.

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#477132 - 04/04/09 04:01 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
R32_3348 Offline
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Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 4456
Loc: Jackson Heights
Often times both express and local have to approach QBP at the same time, creating delays. This is more often during the peak of rush hour. The trains literally come in every 90 seconds at QBP during the rush.

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#477211 - 04/05/09 02:35 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R32_3348]
R160Etrain Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1937
But its not a huge deal, delays are always going to happen in the subway system, it aint something new, I think canarsie riders would rather have a 1 min delay with more space on the train, then have no delays and wait for 2-3 trains to pass by before they can actually fit in one.

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#489215 - 07/20/09 03:42 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
Dashawn Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Bronx, NY
very true
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#496630 - 02/15/10 12:04 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Grand Concourse]
Miss W Supporter Offline
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Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 737
Loc: My imaginary world
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
The border between boroughs is odd in that area. They should 're-draw' the border so the entire L line is on the Brooklyn side and the entire grave yard is a part of Queens or something.
The current map shows the line cutting into a small portion between stations of the L line.


Between Myrtle or Dekalb and Halsey Stations, the L runs directly under Wycoff (sp?) Ave...and Wycoff Ave bewteen these two stations is the border. So the Manhattan Entrance is most likely Queens and the Brooklyn Entrance is most likely Brooklyn. ..its interesting.
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#496632 - 02/15/10 12:13 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
Transportation Alternatives Organizer
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 1539
Loc: The Bronx
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
But its not a huge deal, delays are always going to happen in the subway system, it aint something new, I think canarsie riders would rather have a 1 min delay with more space on the train, then have no delays and wait for 2-3 trains to pass by before they can actually fit in one.


Yes this is very true, espcially during the AM rush when people need to get to work/school & the PM rush when everyone wants to get home.

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#496670 - 02/15/10 09:13 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 318
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
CONSTRUCTION, thats pretty much the only way the canarsie line is going to have its crowds reduced. Obviously when this line was being built they didnt expect the line to be heavily used, i mean seriously, no express tracks, and the stations can only accomodate 60 ft 8-car sets. Thats the problem with the canarsie and thats what the MTA needs to fix.


Another problem is that the MTA somehow 'misunderestimated' the size and scope of development of Williamsburg and Bushwick. How this is possible is frankly beyond me. All they need to is check the Dept. of Buildings permit applications, or better yet, maybe just walk through the nabes? After all, the bus service is too infrequent and spotty to give an accurate picture!


The line was already built in the 1920s, so it would be hard to change the line now that service is running and the neighborhoods are already developed. I think the problem (correct me if I/m wrong) was that people who were near the L train when it was being built didn't want it to go near them, so as a result, the route had many sharp turns, ones that were too tight for a 600 foot train (also note that the BMT ran 480 foot trains regularly back then), and this may have had an impact on the decision to not run express service.
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#496700 - 02/16/10 02:17 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: checkmatechamp13]
toure Offline
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 1539
Loc: The Bronx
Interesting smile.
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