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#496715 - 02/16/10 06:16 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Because there will be congestion at the station where the local and express have to merge before going thru the East River tunnels. All you do is spread the crowding down to one more line, but in the end as long as there are just two tunnels you won't be changing much.

Let me put it into a simple visual:
an airport adds more planes, but does not build a new runway, you will just have a congestion of planes waiting to take off. This is why you can't just build an express under the L and think it will help the L at all.


With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.

The whole route of the <7> is also three tracked right into the terminal.
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#496717 - 02/16/10 06:22 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: TwoTimer]
R160Etrain Offline
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An express track would help the (L), what if there was no L line at all and it was just the J/M/Z serving the Williamsburg area then what?

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#496730 - 02/17/10 02:24 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
toure Offline
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Then people would need to move cuz only having the J/M/Z won't cut it.


Edited by toure (02/17/10 02:26 AM)
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#496732 - 02/17/10 09:24 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
An express track would help the (L), what if there was no L line at all and it was just the J/M/Z serving the Williamsburg area then what?


Williamsburg would never have become popular in the first place these past 10 years or so.
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#496736 - 02/17/10 01:04 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: TwoTimer]
checkmatechamp13 Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Because there will be congestion at the station where the local and express have to merge before going thru the East River tunnels. All you do is spread the crowding down to one more line, but in the end as long as there are just two tunnels you won't be changing much.

Let me put it into a simple visual:
an airport adds more planes, but does not build a new runway, you will just have a congestion of planes waiting to take off. This is why you can't just build an express under the L and think it will help the L at all.


With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.

The whole route of the <7> is also three tracked right into the terminal.


Not from Queensboro Plaza to Times Square. Unfortunately, unlike the Flushing end, at which some 7 local trains start at Willets Point or 111th Street, all 7 local and express trains come into Times Square, creating a bottleneck at QBP, not to mention that both of them are among the most frequent lines in the system.
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#496750 - 02/17/10 06:56 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: checkmatechamp13]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: checkmatechamp13
Originally Posted By: TwoTimer
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: Grand Concourse
Because there will be congestion at the station where the local and express have to merge before going thru the East River tunnels. All you do is spread the crowding down to one more line, but in the end as long as there are just two tunnels you won't be changing much.

Let me put it into a simple visual:
an airport adds more planes, but does not build a new runway, you will just have a congestion of planes waiting to take off. This is why you can't just build an express under the L and think it will help the L at all.


With the new technology that the L is getting L/<L> is definitely possible, plus the 7/<7> also merge together and they still provide good service.

The whole route of the <7> is also three tracked right into the terminal.


Not from Queensboro Plaza to Times Square. Unfortunately, unlike the Flushing end, at which some 7 local trains start at Willets Point or 111th Street, all 7 local and express trains come into Times Square, creating a bottleneck at QBP, not to mention that both of them are among the most frequent lines in the system.

I know there's a QBP bottleneck, I mean going north from QBP, its 1 and 2 track south of there. The difference express to local is about 2-4 minutes pending crowds.


Edited by TwoTimer (02/17/10 06:57 PM)
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#496753 - 02/17/10 08:12 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
An express track would help the (L), what if there was no L line at all and it was just the J/M/Z serving the Williamsburg area then what?


Williamsburg would never have become popular in the first place these past 10 years or so.


WHy not? the J/M/Z cover a good portion of that neighborhood and they have more capacity then the L line.

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#496760 - 02/18/10 10:28 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
NX Sea Beach Express Offline
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Williamsburg was rediscovered in large part because the artsy, creative, organic, newcomer crowd were priced out of the East Village when somebody said 1 day, hey dude, like Bedford is just 1 stop away, let's have a look, and years later, you see the result.

Since the J does not serve the East Village at all, and doesn't even come close, this would never have happened. Additionally, the line is well south of the L and since the streets are generally not perpendicular to the both lines, there is a good distance between the 2 services. Now, with Williamsburg growing, you are starting to see more activity on the J.

Plus, unlike you and I, who look at a subway map and see the possibilities, the g pop (or general population) does not look at things the way we do.
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#496794 - 02/19/10 06:42 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: NX Sea Beach Express]
TwoTimer Offline
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Originally Posted By: NX Sea Beach Express

Plus, unlike you and I, who look at a subway map and see the possibilities, the g pop (or general population) does not look at things the way we do.

That can be said about many different places in the city, some parts that didnt have the technology and scope we enjoy today. A couple of good example:
The (6) would have went to Co-op if the technology (and an idea) needed to fill in that former swamp and erect tall buildings on it was available when the line was built.
The (2) would have went farther down Nostrand or Flatbush if there was actually notable population further south when it was built.


Edited by TwoTimer (02/19/10 06:42 PM)
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#496795 - 02/19/10 07:09 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: TwoTimer]
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I've heard part of the reason why the Nostrand Avenue Line has never been extended south is due to water table issues in southeast Brooklyn.

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#496800 - 02/19/10 08:05 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: EPX2]
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Yep, I've heard the same, its not the solid bedrock like much of the rest of NYC. Also, take note that with the exception of 4th avenue, everything else in southern Brooklyn is up on structure or open cut. The only way it seemed to work was to place it up on structure, and you know the NIMBYs would be out in force lol.
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#496820 - 02/20/10 03:40 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: TwoTimer]
toure Offline
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Wow I never knew that
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#497099 - 03/04/10 08:54 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: toure]
R32_3348 Offline
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The L line has many sharp curves in Brooklyn (particularly between Bedford Ave. and Broadway Junction) because it follows the aboveground street structure instead of cutting across streets underground. This was done in order not to cut through certain parts of Williamsburg and Bushwick when the line was built.

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#498908 - 07/03/10 11:35 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R32_3348]
CNR_Cr Offline
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Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Canarsie
Let's be real though, people are complaining about overcrowding now, could you imagine if the line were extended towards Kings Plaza. All those residential areas including, Flatlands, Bergen Beach and Marine Park --- people in Williamsburg might as well start walking now!!!
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#498954 - 07/09/10 08:28 AM Re: L line to Queens [Re: CNR_Cr]
R160Etrain Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNR_Cr
Let's be real though, people are complaining about overcrowding now, could you imagine if the line were extended towards Kings Plaza. All those residential areas including, Flatlands, Bergen Beach and Marine Park --- people in Williamsburg might as well start walking now!!!



I always thought the 2/5 should have been extended to Kings Plaza

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#498971 - 07/12/10 03:17 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
RockawayChick Offline
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Registered: 01/12/10
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Loc: Rockaway Park, Queens
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
(L) does not need need to go to Far Rockaway plus ridership on the (A) in Far Rockaway Im assuming is low
It's low only during off-hours. During Rush Hours it can get a little packed. The Roc PK Shuttle is always empty.
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#498983 - 07/13/10 01:58 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: R160Etrain]
Q89LCL Offline


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Posts: 3027
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Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: CNR_Cr
Let's be real though, people are complaining about overcrowding now, could you imagine if the line were extended towards Kings Plaza. All those residential areas including, Flatlands, Bergen Beach and Marine Park --- people in Williamsburg might as well start walking now!!!



I always thought the 2/5 should have been extended to Kings Plaza
back then the Nostrand ave line was suposed to be extended down to ave U and connect to kp but that wasn't done because there wasn't enough money to do so.
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#499050 - 07/21/10 04:47 PM Re: L line to Queens [Re: Q89LCL]
exptorockpark Offline
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Brooklyn NY
Originally Posted By: Q89LCL
Originally Posted By: R160Etrain
Originally Posted By: CNR_Cr
Let's be real though, people are complaining about overcrowding now, could you imagine if the line were extended towards Kings Plaza. All those residential areas including, Flatlands, Bergen Beach and Marine Park --- people in Williamsburg might as well start walking now!!!



I always thought the 2/5 should have been extended to Kings Plaza
back then the Nostrand ave line was suposed to be extended down to ave U and connect to kp but that wasn't done because there wasn't enough money to do so.


Actually the 2 was supposed to be extended into Sheepshead down Nostrand to Voorhies Avenue. The 5 probably would have gone down Utica to where the Current Intersection of Flatbush and Ave U (Kings Plaza) is now.

As for the L being extended past it's current stop. Long ago there were stops in Canarsie at Flatlands, Avenue L, Seaview and along Canarsie Pier. The reason these were stopped is because most of the land was privately owned and the BMT thought it to be too expensive to purchase all the land to create an elevated structure. So instead, a trolley line was built close to East 95th Street for the most part until the B42 came along and was rerouted along Rockaway Parkway. If you get off there you can see the old trolley cables and the diagonal cut along Glenwood road and Rockaway Parkway headed over towards East 95th street.

My theory as to why the canarsie line was never built up as 3 tracks or more is because even as late as the 50's you would be pressed to find any homes built past East 99th Street. All of the E 100's and Starrett City were still swamp land for the most part. Canarsie was usually the butt of jokes as being in the middle of nowhere. Aside from the Brownsville and East NY sections (New Lots Rd, Livonia, Sutter, Atlantic and Broadway Jnct) the southern most section of the line is even lucky to have 2 tracks instead of 1.
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