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#399703 - 01/12/08 09:02 AM The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service
EE Broadway Local EE Broadway Local Federal Transit Administration Rep. Registered: 11/28/06 Posts: 5156 Loc: Ariz. by way of N.J. & N.Y.	If the M.T.A. had tried true skip-stop service from 96th Street: (1) 103d; (9) 110th; (1) 116th; (9) 125th; (1) 137th; (9) 145th; (1) 157th; (1)(9) 168th; (9) 181st; (1) 191st; (9) Dyckman; (1) 207th; (9) 215th; (1) 225th; (9) 231st and (9) 238th. Edited by EE Broadway Local (01/12/08 09:08 AM) _________________________ E.......is for Elizabeth!
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#399769 - 01/12/08 01:52 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: EE Broadway Local]
Lex Express Lex Express Lord of the Post Registered: 06/27/02 Posts: 17080 Loc: Springfield Gardens, Queens	It would not work. There would be a reduction of service at several busy stations. _________________________ "This stop is Silver Spring. Red Line to Glenmont. Next stop is Forest Glen".
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#399771 - 01/12/08 01:54 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: EE Broadway Local]
Alon Alon Subway Engineer Registered: 08/25/07 Posts: 2798 Loc: Morningside Heights	There's way too much demand for local service for this to be feasible. You're proposing reducing service to these stops to once every 6 minutes. This despite the fact that the stations on the Bronx 6, some of which are among the least used in the system, get service once every 2.5 minutes. Even that line's most used system, Parkchester, only has about as much ridership as 103rd, 110th, 116th, and 137th on the 1.
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#399780 - 01/12/08 02:35 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Lex Express]
EE Broadway Local EE Broadway Local Federal Transit Administration Rep. Registered: 11/28/06 Posts: 5156 Loc: Ariz. by way of N.J. & N.Y.	Originally Posted By: Lex Express It would not work. There would be a reduction of service at several busy stations. Sorry. I was trying to determine if the (9) may or may not have fared better during its' time if the M.T.A. tried this instead of what they did try. From this, 116th, 137th and 225th each would have had (1) service during the (9)'s years. The (9) was an interesting concept - I rode it several times but I think Broadway/St. Nicholas just isn`t like the 'Ave' where the (Z) helps the (J). Edited by EE Broadway Local (01/12/08 02:44 PM) Edit Reason: Remembering Thd Old (9) Service. _________________________ E.......is for Elizabeth!
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#399811 - 01/12/08 05:08 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: EE Broadway Local]
Relay Relay Straphanger Registered: 01/10/08 Posts: 268 Loc: New York City	I was working on the 1 line before and during a good part of the 1/9 service, so I'll try to shed some light. The community boards which serve the stations 103, 110, 116, and 125 streets protested the Broadway skip-stop service as the TA proposed it for two major (and in my opinion, valid) reasons. (1) NYCT was simply caving in to pressure from Riverdale. The express bus fares had recently gone up and Riverdale residents were demanding an express such as other IRT lines have. NYCT came up with a "smoke and mirrors" trick to fool people into thinking that they would increase service on the uppper Broadway line. With almost no increase in the numbers of railcars assigned, they would have the 137 Street turnbacks go all the way to Van Cortlandt Park by implementing the "skip-stop" express service. The intent was to have the service from 96th Street to 242nd Street, and they would make it "work" by having us skip stations at 35 rather than 15 MPH. During the Spring of 1995 skip-stop testing at 35 MPH was done on a number of early Sunday mornings. Then came the Williamsburg bridge crash which ended that line of thinking. Then the community boards around the 103, 110, 116 and 125th streets won out that these stations had always had both trains serving them, and there was no reason to sacrifice service in this location simply to increase it somewhere else. NYCT implemented the service as a one year experiment. At the end of that year, passengers at 191st Street reminded NYCT that the experiment time had elapsed. They gathered a large petition and with the help of their elected representatives they demanded, and got 1 line trains to resume stopping at their station. NYCT was ready to abandon the entire project then. But someone in Operations Planning needed to save face, so they kept trying different things, none of which worked. The truth is that only 242, 231, 181 and 168 benefited from this. All the other stations actually had a decrease in service. _________________________ Photobucket:- http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/Relay-Metro
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#399821 - 01/12/08 05:56 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Relay]
Alon Alon Subway Engineer Registered: 08/25/07 Posts: 2798 Loc: Morningside Heights	What's the second major reason?
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#399832 - 01/12/08 07:13 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Alon]
RokuSix RokuSix Subway Engineer Registered: 07/28/07 Posts: 2590 Loc: The Bronx!	That's interesting how the skip-stop was a cleverly designed trick to make it seem like they were adding "express" service. _________________________ East Side IRT Fangirl. Yes, I'm a female railfan. The Bronx is up.
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#399854 - 01/12/08 08:59 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Alon]
Relay Relay Straphanger Registered: 01/10/08 Posts: 268 Loc: New York City	Originally Posted By: Alon What's the second major reason? Because those areas had always had both services, the 137th Street (9) and the 242nd Street trains (1). My apologies in the previous post, I explained it but didn't enumerate it. _________________________ Photobucket:- http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/Relay-Metro
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#399857 - 01/12/08 09:09 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Relay]
TheGreatOne2k7 TheGreatOne2k7 TWU President Registered: 04/15/02 Posts: 3093 Loc: Bronx, NY	The Bronx 6 stations do not have 2.5 minutes service except in the reverse peak direction. Peak direction the local stations can have 7-9 minute headways during the rush hours. _________________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/52389966@N00/
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#399870 - 01/12/08 09:33 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: TheGreatOne2k7]
Relay Relay Straphanger Registered: 01/10/08 Posts: 268 Loc: New York City	Originally Posted By: TheGreatOne2k7 The Bronx 6 stations do not have 2.5 minutes service except in the reverse peak direction. Peak direction the local stations can have 7-9 minute headways during the rush hours. You are correct. I start work at 7:45. The Parkchester turnbacks begin with the 7:54 arrival, which relays and becomes the 8:10 southbound. Then follows an 8:15, 8:20, 8:28, 8:37, 8:45, and it's pretty much an 8 minute interval from that point on through the day. Pelham Bay Park has an even tighter headway, but since they use "M" track, the local stops southbound see an 8 minute interval. Returning Pelham Bay trains are on track 2 with the "Parkies" so you really do have better local service against the flow of rush hour traffic on this, Flushing, and the West Farms lines _________________________ Photobucket:- http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/Relay-Metro
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#412161 - 03/11/08 11:28 AM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Relay]
Redline Redline Tourist Registered: 03/11/08 Posts: 3	Since there is a #6 Express train (#6 "Diamond") that runs during Rush Hour; why is there not an equivalent Express train on the #1 line (#1 Diamond") that runs during Rush Hour? I, along with thousands of other riders, commute from Midtown to 242 street ever night during Rush Hour. Every commute back to 242 street; the #1 Train is delayed significantly upon reaching 207 street until 242 street (waiting at each station for at least 4 - 5 minutes). This delay is caused by several trains at the proceeding stations waiting until they can advance to the next station until reaching 242 station. The time it takes to travel 5 stations is close to 20 minutes (on top of the 1 hour plus long commute from Midtown). This is absurd and can be easily solved by having some of the #1 trains run Expressas ("#1 Diamond") during Rush Hour. Why is there not a #1 Diamond Express train running during Rush Hour to correct this problem and cut down on the commute time of thousands of riders living in the Kingsbridge/Riverdale area?
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#412199 - 03/11/08 05:55 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
Relay Relay Straphanger Registered: 01/10/08 Posts: 268 Loc: New York City	Redline, Welcome to this disccussion. I would refer you to my original posting of 01/12, which detailed the former 1 and 9 skip stop express. To answer your question, the main reason is that the 6 line is three tracked with express stations at 3rd Ave, Hunts Point and Parkchester. Therefore you can run what you are proposing, a zone express. The Broadway line simply is not configured for zone express service, like the 6 and 7 lines are. And we know what happened when they tried the skip stop express. _________________________ Photobucket:- http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/Relay-Metro
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#412264 - 03/12/08 12:43 AM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Relay]
Alon Alon Subway Engineer Registered: 08/25/07 Posts: 2798 Loc: Morningside Heights	Also, no express service is going to relieve crowding at the terminal.
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#412507 - 03/13/08 02:10 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Alon]
sebbieprops sebbieprops New York State Governor Registered: 06/15/07 Posts: 8608 Loc: Morrisania, Bronx NY	Welcome, Redline! _________________________ I am an observer of the human condition.
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#412513 - 03/13/08 02:30 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: sebbieprops]
EE Broadway Local EE Broadway Local Federal Transit Administration Rep. Registered: 11/28/06 Posts: 5156 Loc: Ariz. by way of N.J. & N.Y.	The thing I find interesting is if the M.T.A. had tried true skip-stop service and started it from 96th Street, 116th and 137th Streets would've had (1) service while the (9) would've served 110th and 125th Streets. Like 242d Street and 168th Street, 125th could also have been a (1)(9) Stop, but the primary station for Columbia and CUNY (CCNY) would've had (1) service during the years the (9) ran - 1989 - 2005. Edited by EE Broadway Local (03/13/08 02:38 PM) _________________________ E.......is for Elizabeth!
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#412536 - 03/13/08 03:57 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: EE Broadway Local]
Redline Redline Tourist Registered: 03/11/08 Posts: 3	Well the MTA should have said screw the community boards in those neighborhoods that were opposed to the skip-stop service; those neighborhoods have other options (C and B-trains or one of the "stop" stations) while the Kingsbridge/Riverdale communities only have 1 option. And yes Express service may not avoid congession @ 242 but would reduce the time it takes to get there.
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#412552 - 03/13/08 04:59 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
Lex Express Lex Express Lord of the Post Registered: 06/27/02 Posts: 17080 Loc: Springfield Gardens, Queens	A idea that I proposed was to send every other 3 train up the 1 line via the express track to either Dyckman or 242st. _________________________ "This stop is Silver Spring. Red Line to Glenmont. Next stop is Forest Glen".
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#412555 - 03/13/08 05:15 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Lex Express]
Relay Relay Straphanger Registered: 01/10/08 Posts: 268 Loc: New York City	The main problem with the Broadway line is it is just not configured for zone express service. Take a look at the entire picture: (1) The citizens form community boards. The community boards push their elected officials. (2) The elected officials are the ones who vote on funding bills. So MTA can't realistically ignore entirely what the people want. So when Riverdale screamed for express service, they furnished something that looked like it. . . . . . and I explained what happened. As for turning at Dyckman. There used to be a few trains that did just that. What happened? The same problem as we had at 137th Street. People taking too long to get off the train, delaying everything behind it. I'm not saying that this, and other proposals like it (turning 6's at Westchester Sq, Lex express)won't work. They actually could work. But NYCT would have to hire a lot of platform conductors to clean out trains in a timely manner and keep the line moving. And to hear them (NYCT) tell it, there just isn't enough money for that. _________________________ Photobucket:- http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/Relay-Metro
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#412570 - 03/13/08 09:04 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
Alon Alon Subway Engineer Registered: 08/25/07 Posts: 2798 Loc: Morningside Heights	Originally Posted By: Redline Well the MTA should have said screw the community boards in those neighborhoods that were opposed to the skip-stop service; those neighborhoods have other options (C and B-trains or one of the "stop" stations) while the Kingsbridge/Riverdale communities only have 1 option. And yes Express service may not avoid congession @ 242 but would reduce the time it takes to get there. The last time the government ignored urban communities in order to satisfy suburban interests, its projects depressed entire cities. The people of Riverdale chose to live far away from where they work; they shouldn't screw Upper Manhattan just to get their short commute.
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#412634 - 03/14/08 09:36 AM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Alon]
Redline Redline Tourist Registered: 03/11/08 Posts: 3	Like I said, the Upper Manhattan communities have other options such as the C & B trains as well as the "stop" stations while the Riverdale/Kingsbridge communities have to rely on only the 1 train. So the Upper Manhattan communities are not getting screwed. Yes, the people of Riverdale chose to live far away, however, so do the people who live out in Flushing (yet, they have Express service). All I am saying is that there is definitely room for improvement. However, it seems that improvement is not in the MTA's vocabulary (but fare hike is).
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#412718 - 03/14/08 08:18 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
R32_3348 R32_3348 NYC Council Transportation Committee Chairperson Registered: 03/25/07 Posts: 2245 Loc: Jackson Heights	Welcome to the boards redline. _________________________ Photobucket -R160B8713 on NYCTForums
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#412721 - 03/14/08 08:47 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
hoss77 hoss77 Straphanger Registered: 05/13/04 Posts: 138 Loc: Bronx, NY	I just want to say that when skip-stop service was on the 1 train, I was a conductor on the 1 at the time and like Relay said Bway was not configured for express service. At the time skip-stop was running people in Harlem and Wash Heights was getting screwed at 145St, 157St, Dyckman St 207St, 215, 225, and 238.These people were only getting one train while the only people that made out was at 242, 231,191, 181, and 168 as they got both trains and the people at 191 had to fight TA just to get both trains back.And also remember that the last station that had the crossover before 242St, Dyckman St didn't get both trains to stop there.
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#412742 - 03/15/08 04:53 AM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Redline]
Alon Alon Subway Engineer Registered: 08/25/07 Posts: 2798 Loc: Morningside Heights	Halving service to most of Upper Manhattan isn't an improvement. The B doesn't stop in the same areas as the 1, the C is a joke, and the A already gets most Washington Heights riders. The 1 has this nifty thing about getting people to where they want to go, like Times Square; the A and C stop too far west to be of much use. And Flushing is a bad comparison, because it's a three-track line. A better comparison might be Jamaica, but a) the Jamaica skip-stop is just as useless, and b) Jamaica has about half the population density of Upper Manhattan.
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#412748 - 03/15/08 12:57 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: Alon]
EE Broadway Local EE Broadway Local Federal Transit Administration Rep. Registered: 11/28/06 Posts: 5156 Loc: Ariz. by way of N.J. & N.Y.	If memory serves me correctly, the middle track isn't continuous between 96th and 242d Streets and stations are side platforms. Peak direction express service wouldn't serve anyone. The old Broadway 'Express' was slightly misnamed. _________________________ E.......is for Elizabeth!
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#412783 - 03/15/08 04:48 PM Re: The (1) And (9) Skip-Stop Service [Re: EE Broadway Local]
hoss77 hoss77 Straphanger Registered: 05/13/04 Posts: 138 Loc: Bronx, NY	I just want to say that the C line is not useless or a joke. I work the C sometimes and the C is a very popular line and people do ride it. I think the headways could be better and it run a little later than it does. I know for a fact that when something does go wrong on the 1 people will take the A or C to the nearest stop to the 1 and then walk over. And when something goes wrong on the A or C people will take the 1 and do the same thing.
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