They really should have had this idea when they first started the V, and have the Z go down to south brooklyn, since that old M and Z are both rush hour services.

True and that may be the case when the economy picks up for the MTA

This is the worst day of my life. The "M" service is a big flock PERIOD.

The MTA could save a lot of money eliminating the entire route. Unless they went for my shuttle plan, which extends the upper level.

But they had to listen to some sub chatter and now my dreams of having a shuttle is totally eliminated.

What could make the MTA get rid of the "V", reroute the "M" Brooklyn line away from the fourth Avenue routing?

With proper revenue, the "V" would have extended to at least Church Avenue.

Running two services out of Metropolitan Avenue might be a consideration. The "K" service could followed the old "M" route. It will run rush hours.

According to surveys done by the MTA, about 45% of the M-train northern Brooklyn riders were headed to the downtown area, while about 55% of the M-train's ridership was headed to midtown. The same may be said for the J-train ridership.

In plain english, the new M-train does serve a portion of the ridership that is headed toward midtown, while also not hampering the original ridership of the V-train. In essence two routes were combined into one route, where the best features of each route helps the other.

Metropolitan Avenue based riders, and riders from the J-train who transfer to the M-train have a direct ride to midtown, a destination that many want. At the same time, for riders to/from the downtown area still have J and Z trains that travel there. Since the V-train had more service hours and frequency than the pre-6/2010 M-train, Metropolitan Avenue based riders have more frequent service.

Pre-6/2010 V-train riders did not lose service, but the same trains become more useful since the whole line now has "two tails" of service. This works out as a "win-win" for plenty of folk.

The rush hours only Pre-6/2010 M-train to southern Brooklyn had already been canceled by the MTA, so even without the creation of the new M-train, those southern Brooklyn rider would have been impacted. The M-train would have ended at Chambers Street during the day and evenings, the times when it is not a shuttle. The new M-train is the "compromise" that turns a bad situation into a better.

Mike

I disagree. If you are already on the L train, and heading to midtown, you are better off staying on than transfering to the M at Myrtle/Wyckoff. At 6th/14th you have a chance of catching either an F or an M, which would speed up your trip. You can also transfer to the N/Q/R or 4/5/6 at Union Square, which are all very useful in midtown (and can be faster than the F/M).

Personally, I don't optimize my trips for getting a seat or not; I optimize them for speed...

The only riders that I would see doing what you describe would be ones who live near Myrtle/Wyckoff itself (or another area in Brooklyn with both M and L train access). Then they might as well get on the M at that point. Although in my personal experience with the new M train, it is still quite slow (took me more than 50 minutes to get from Hewes St to 5th/53rd, when you take the 10+ minute wait into account).

Agreed. As with the Lex, the L is a victim of its own success. It is direct, fast and there are no merging/diverging lines along the way to slow things down. There are few timers along the route, especially west of Myrtle which is the part of the route in question here.

The L/Lex combo to Midtown from E Willy can be as little as 20 minutes whilst, as cda notes, it can be double and upwards on the new M Midtown direct.

The purpose of the new M is not necessarily for speed; for that the M would run express as it once did. It provides transit alternatives that addresses the needs of ridership in north Brooklyn and central Queens as Mike said before. I'm finding that ridership is indeed increasing and the headways from Metropolitan are about 8 minutes on average, a whole lot better than the old M. Moreover, 14th Street is not Midtown; it runs through the lower east side, the East Village, Greenwich Village, and Chelsea.

Also consider that the 4,5, and 6 trains are ridiculously overcrowded and can necessitate longer waits for a train to arrive with space to get in. The Broadway line is a joke; with the 2 trains switching in and out of the express tracks, delays are standard. The new M does what it's supposed to do and is doing it quite well. Remember, this was a service cut.

I agree. I have been a big fan of the M/V combo ever since I heard about the idea, before it was put into effect

I was just analyzing the choice a rider would make at Myrtle/Wyckoff about which train to take to get to midtown. I think a lot of riders would choose the L over the M, even though it is a direct ride, because of the slow speed of the M line.

The sad truth is that a lot of NYC subway lines are slower than they should be, whether this is because of poor switch/track design (too many timers) or poor headways. The M suffers from a bit of both.