Ok so i'm sorry if this question seems dumb, but who came up with the idea for elevated trains? Is it because before they opened the subway in 1904 most of the trains were els? When I was younger I thought it was b/c they "ran out of room" underground lol

Basically in the 1860's and early 1880's - there were several technological and engineering articles, suggestions and reports on how to deal with the traffic congestion on the streets. The streets in NYC were filled with omnibuses (horse drawn carriages - the first public transit) that rolled on street rails, the first early steam trolley systems, and the early railroads. Also banded about was the concept of the "right of way", an exclusive pathway for one type of vehicle. There were a few failed but instructive experiments, the influence of folks like Boss Tweed, the financiers who stood to make money, the technology available at the time, when electric power did not exist for mass usage, the fact that the downtown areas of Manhattan and Brooklyn were very crowded - while vast areas of the city were not populated, that real estate interests were eager to open up - develop "new" areas of the city, and there were plenty of folk who needed work, etc.

Hope this helps.
Mike

Do not forget Frank Julian Sprague, the Father of electric traction.

I also believe that because of equiptment problems and issue dealing with the impossible task of drilling through some of the tougher bedrock that is displaced through different areas of the city lead them to think about elevated options for the lines.

There are several documentaries about the building of the subways, and the elevated lines. There's even a whole section on the NYCSubway.Org website, that is a very good read on the history.

No, I did not forget the contributions of electricity, and electric traction, or multiple unit control. However those innovations, as important as they were actually came after the steam elevated railways were up and running. In addition, there were advances in train signals and other features that we take for granted. Transit history is important.

Mike

Around 1868, Mr. Alfred Ely Beach actually built New York's and the U.S.A.'s first subway. This was a short subway under Broadway in the vicinity of City Hall and operated on the theory of pneumatic. Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall weren't impressed and it would be 1900 before New York would go underground again.

The Ninth Avenue El is considered the first and was opened by Mr. Charles Harvey on July 1, 1868.

Thanks for the contribution. As I said that there were several transit experiments from the 1860's to the 1880's - some innovative and some failures - that helped to form the transit network that we have, not only the subway network, but also the elevated network.

Please note that the Alfred Ely Beach's subway was located about the intersection of Broadway and Murray Street, with two small stations around the corner from each other, and a single pneumatic car. The fish bowl, chandelier and the piano accented the stations well. The digging for the line occurred at nights with the debris carried out secretly from a nearby store. Boss Tweed and the politicians of the time had given Mr. Beach permission to build a pneumatic system for the delivery of mail, not for the building of a subway. It was well established that a pneumatic subway could not in fact provide transportation for a thriving city such as New York, even at that time. Most of Manhattan was still being developed, Central Park was still under construction, and the major travel arteries remained to be created. Harlem and the west Bronx were practically suburbs inside the city without convenient access. Brooklyn, then its own separate city, opened the Brooklyn Academy of Music near its own city hall, now called Borough Hall. The creators of Central Park, Calvert Vaux and Frederick Law Olmstead were beginning to be approached to work on Brooklyn's Eastern Parkway, Prospect Park, and other features. Decades after this subway experiment was closed, it was left forgotten, until the building of the BMT's City Hall station. There is a plaque in the station (north end of the station, near the tower room) that celebrates the city's first subway experiment.

Please note that the Blizzard of 1888, and the resulting paralysis of both cities, lead to the desire to place overhead and street pole wires underground, as alongside the other underground utilities, and the wish for an underground transportation system.

This period of time is a fascinating aspect of New York City history. As I said before many really interesting things were occurring in the New York City area, even if I did not spell each one of them out.

Mike

Wow thanks for all the info guys. Very informative .

I'm glad they built elevated railways. The outside trains offer such great views...

It's so sad they tore down many elevated lines though, such as the Myrtle Ave line, the one that went over the Brooklyn Bridge, and many others. Those would have been helpful. Everytime the M train I'm on pass the abandonded track beds by Myrtle Ave, I think to myself, would it be cool to have a train go straight from Ridgewood to Downtown Brooklyn..?

Of the four Manhattan els, the Third Avenue El was possibly the most famous. Third Avenue ran to South Ferry as late as 1950, to City Hall (Park Row) as late as 1953 and to Chatham Square until May 12, 1955.

From May 12, 1955 until April 29, 1973 it ran from East 149th Street-Third Avenue to Gun Hill Road and connecting to the (2)(5) at each terminal.

Manhattan Stations:
South Ferry
Hanover Square
Fulton Street
Franklin Square
Chatham Square
Canal Street
Grand Street
Houston Street
East 9th Street
14th Street
18th Street
23d Street
28th Street
34th Street
42d Street
47th Street
53d Street
59th Street
67th Street
76th Street
84th Street
89th Street
99th Street
106th Street
116th Street
125th Street
129th Street

The Bronx Stations:
East 133d Street
138th Street
143d Street
149th Street
156th Street
161st Street
166th Street
169th Street
Claremont Parkway
174th Street
177th Street
180th Street
183d Street
Fordham Road
200th Street
204th Street
210th Street-Williamsbridge
Gun Hill Road

Wow some of these stations were so close together. I bet the subway was amazing back then..even though technology lacked. I'm sure the 1940's and 50's were amazing times for the MTA lol

The MTA though did not exist back then. You must mean the subway system generally.

If the Myrtle Avenue Line were still around south of Broadway, and went over the Brooklyn Bridge, this is how I would run it:
(J)- Jamaica Center to Broad Street all times. Weekdays express Broadway Junction to Marcy Avenue AM westbound PM eastbound. Skip stop service with Z east of Broadway Junction.
(K)- Canarsie to Broad Street rush hours and middays.
(M)- Metropolitan Avenue to City Hall all times.
(Z)- Jamaica Center to 57th Street-6th Avenue rush hours peak direction. Skip stop service with J east of Broadway Junction. I would have a layup track built north of 57th Street.

Alternatively, the (K) and (Z) could be switched, with the (Z) running to Broad Street and the (K) running to 57th Street, like an extended version of the old (K).

If the 3rd track was installed on Jamaica Avenue, I would replace the skip-stop service with (Z) express service.

The advantage of the Z going to midtown would be that it is already express, so people wouldn't transfer to the L, and would probably wait for the Z instead of the L at Broadway Junction.

Why did they demolish the southern part of the Myrtle Line, I would have kept it.

I'm not sure. I think there was a fire on the tracks, and that severely damaged the line, so instead of rebuilding it, the ciy probably figured that it would be cheaper to knock it down. This was in 1969, but I think the city was starting to have some fiscal problems. I think there was a similar situation with the Third Avenue Line.

Myrtle Avenue El (MJ) (Bridge-Jay Streets Terminal to Broadway Upper Level) October 4, 1969 B54

Third Avenue El (8) April 29, 1973 BX49

Culver Shuttle (SS) (Ninth Avenue Lowe Level to Ditmas Avenue) May 11, 1975 B35

Jamaica El 168th Street-Jamaica Terminal to Queens Boulevard October 10, 1977; Queens Boulevard to 121st Street April 15, 1985 Briefly Q49.

This was done during the Robert Moses era when the automobile was dominant in American culture.

Its a shame...

Nothing has changed.

I also would have kept that little spur piece north of West Farms-Tremont that headed up to the zoo. Not for service purposes but just for storage (leaving only one connection to downtown local track), never know when it can come in handy.

You're referring to the 2/5 right? Dumb question, I know!

Not a problem. Yes, Two Timer was referring to the Bronx Park Spur that ran to 180th Street-Bronx Park.

The Bronx Park Spur and 180th Street-Bronx Park Terminal wasn't closed and abandoned until 1952.

From November 26, 1904 to March 3, 1917, when East 180th Street opened, this two track island platform terminal was the original 180th Street station.


As a footnote, there were concern/protests that trains running over Bronx Park would be bad for the animals in Bronx Zoo and that's why the (2) and (5) have the route they do from Southern Boulevard to White Plains Road.

Well the walk from Bronx Pk East too the zoo isn't too bad at all. But its not like the MTA would've built an el smack in between a panda den or anything lol