A) Extension of peak direction (J) express to "Broadway Junction"; B) Expansion of (Z) service hours; C) Extension of (J)(Z) to Merrick Boulevard/Archer Avenue?

In order for the J-train to run express from Broadway Junction to Marcy Avenue, a route has to cover the local stations from Myrtle Avenue to Broadway Junction.

Right now those duties are divided between the J and Z-trains, giving each station about the same amount of wait time between trains. Removing the J-train to run express might mean that those stations are served by Z-trains with longer waits between the trains.

So I would pick C) expansion of Z-train service hours.

Mike

Mike, don't you mean (B) for expansion of <Z>-train service hours.
I also agree.
It should be just like <6 and <7>.
In the AM, J/Z provide skip-stop and express service from Jamaica Center to Marcy Av, while PM Queens-bound will operate express and skip-stop from Marcy Av to Jamaica Center.
M should terminate at Chambers St.

I would say B) expansion of Z service hours, maybe just fit them to the standard rush hour service 3:30 - 8:00 and 6:30 to 9:30?

Yes, you are right, I meant choice B) for the expansion of Z-train service. Thanks,

Mike

Can I pick option D) eliminating skip-stop?

I think that would be another good option. This can mean more service on the J. However, it would be a longer ride.

Yeah, I remember when I took J train soon few days after 9-11 tragedy, J was making local stop all the way to 95th St, and that was long wait when I was waiting in Manhattan station.

5 minutes longer... if you look at the schedules right before and right after skip-stop begins, you see a difference of only 5 minutes between Jamaica Center and Myrtle.

I'd rather have more service in all J-line stations rather than bad service in them.

I would say extend the route, but beyond Merrick Bl though. I don't think that is possible for a while. So for right now, extend the Z hrs and skip/stop express service.

5 minutes is still a big difference to some people especially those going to school or work. Unless there are express tracks built on the Jamaica el segment. Skip/stop is the only solution to make trains 'quicker' in the rush hours.

Just like I was trying to explain to the posters at Subchat there's a difference between real time and transit time. Psychologically it's frustrating to make all of those extra stops.

But skip/stop service on the J/Z works as the stations have a more balanced ridership level per station. The QB express and Lexington Av express crawls from one station to another which doesn't save much time compared to the local where you at least get a seat or more 'breathing room'.
Psychologically it's frustrating waiting on a slow express while packed in like sardines. Pretty masochistic might I add.

I'd have to say an extension of the (Z) service hours is what I'd most like to see.

I'd like to see skip-stop service along the Broadway El terminated, with the Z being transformed into a peak-direction express from Marcy Avenue to Broadway Junction. The "local" stations along that line all receive 10 minute waits as it is (one J train every 10 minutes for half, one Z train every 10 minutes for the other half), so they wouldn't really notice any major changes in service.

If ridership warranted it, the Z could even have its hours extended, maybe even becoming a weekday (6 am-9 pm or whatever) train rather than a rush-hour train. And if ridership also warranted this and the MTA had enough money to spare, the flyover express track that was supposedly to have been installed on the portion of the line east of Broadway Junction could finally be added. Skip-stop service between Broadway Junction and Sutphin Boulevard could be eliminated and the Z could run express, making intermediate stops at Crescent Street and Woodhaven Boulevard.

I don't really see the point in making the J express since it runs full-time along the line. It would be a lot more consistent to simply have the J run local east of Myrtle Avenue at all times, while the Z would run express (initially) during rush hours.

Maybe hard to believe today but the (M) once ran weekdays 6am to 8pm between Metro Avenue and Coney Island and was the express between Marcy and Myrtle Avenues.

That's actually a nice idea, but that's only if the MTA had any $.
A Z express would be popular being an express and could help take off riders from the E line.
But if the Jamaica el is going to have peak express service, I would have Woodhaven converted into a 2 island platform station so the Z would stop there without having to switch back to the local tracks to stop there. If you have the bypass track [running down Jamaica Av until curving near the Alabama station] then you don't need to have the express stop at Crescent Street [bypassing the slow curve between Crescent and Cypress Hills.

Ideally the express could run from Marcy, Myrtle, Broadway Junction, Woodhaven, Sutphin Blvd, and finally Jamaica Center. And I'm sure ridership will increase dramatically especially as an alternative to the E.

Oh, true. What I was thinking about was having the express track added on top of the Fulton St. stations (IIRC, that's why those stations feature flat canopies). There's a trackway east of Broadway Junction that rises above the currently-used tracks and ends just before reaching Alabama Avenue; this trackway suggests that the developers of the line were planning on implementing express service in that manner.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?34411

Anyway, the express track would be extended from this trackway and bypass the Alabama Avenue, Van Siclen Avenue, Cleveland Street, and Norwood Avenue stations. It would have a stop at Crescent Street at a new side platform built on top of the current island platform. The express track would then take another route towards Jamaica Avenue (bypassing the infamous curve and probably bypassing Cypress Hills altogether along the way) and join the Jamaica Avenue line as a center express track. Woodhaven Boulevard would likely have to be transformed into a true express station (featuring two island platforms) to make service much more efficient, as you suggested.

Of course, if that were to be deemed too difficult or expensive, they could just leave Woodhaven Boulevard as is. The express track would rise above the local tracks just west of the station and stop at a side platform constructed over one of the current platforms.



Agreed. It would make the J/Z much more attractive to riders as there would be a very efficient express service available, making a pretty slow and sluggish ride much quicker.

That would be amazing to see. It would save so much time and i wouldn't have to be packed onto the E. I would sure like for this to happen. Great Suggestions EPX2 and GC.

Thanks. Also, I wanted to add this to my previous post, but the edit time limit had passed: the reason why I'm stressing having a stop at Crescent Street is because without that, there would be a whopping eight stations bypassed between Broadway Junction and Woodhaven Boulevard by the express track. While seven stations along the Central Park West branch of the Eighth Avenue Line are currently bypassed by express trains, CPW receives a considerably greater amount of service than the proposed rerouting of the J/Z lines would provide. Basically, someone arriving at 125 Street on a northbound A or D express train wouldn't have to wait too long (at least, in comparison to those along the J/Z line) for a southbound B or C local to arrive to access any of the local stations along CPW. Fulton Street/Jamaica Avenue riders wouldn't have this privilege as there would only be one local route, operating every 10 minutes, serving the line.

Since service would be much more infrequent on this line, I'd think it would be much more beneficial to limit exactly how many stations would be bypassed while still making the express service as efficient as possible. Under my own plan, between Broadway Junction and Crescent Street, four stations would be skipped; between Crescent Street and Woodhaven Boulevard, an additional three. Riders would still be given a quick express route while having sufficient transfer options to local routes available.

I would do the express stops differently. The express would split after 121st. Then, it would stop at Cypress Hills before heading to the Junction.

East of East New York, there are only two tracks, so express service is infeasible. Skip-stop can work because the J and Z take roughly the same time to travel from Jamaica Center to Myrtle, but express can't.

I still think there should just be one J service that runs local at all times and is extended to the West End Line during rush hours.

in the proposal made above, a new middle track would be made. if i read correct.

Right... and if you re-read my posts, you'll see I proposed installing an express track as a flyover track above the Fulton Street stations and as a center track through the Jamaica Avenue stations.



I don't really see the point in that. I mean, all it'd do is make the J an extremely long line during rush hours.